pühapäev, juuni 29, 2008

ilves medvedev

The expectations were nil. The postmortems have been not so good. And yet, there was something comforting about seeing the giant from Ärma and the bear cub from Kupchino seated next to one another, framed by their respective flags. Perhaps diplomatic niceties that cost each side nothing are in order.

22 kommentaari:

AndresS ütles ...

One could have hoped for a small warming in relations but after todays events it doesn't look like Russia is willing to give up one of it's favorite punching bags.

Rainer ütles ...

The Big Lynx, the Little Bear and the Rabid Alley Dog (Kossachev)

Rainer ütles ...

And it seems to me that Russia is aiming a gun at its foot once again.

Hirnu-Hrnx! ütles ...

What happened today?

Giustino ütles ...

What is interesting is that the problems in the relationship are largely BS. Take the border treaty. If Estonia retracted its preamble, it would change nothing, because the legislation it references was already passed. If Russia ratified the treaty, it would change nothing for its side either. But neither side can come to agreement because it's "against their principles." It's a fake controversy.

space_maze ütles ...

What happened today?

As I understand it...

Ilves, with his Finnish and Hungarian collegues, are in Khanty-Mansiysk at some Finno-Ugric congress of some sort. Medvedev is there too, and this is the first meeting between the Estonian and Russian president since the bronze night.

There was already some BS yesterday at the opening of the congress. Tarja Halonen, and the Hungarian president, were told that they could give their speaches in their respective languages. Ilves and his staff were told that the working languages of the conference were English and Russian, and English and Russian ONLY. Which caused some resentment, oddly enough, when the Estonian delegation noticed this - AFTER Ilves' (English) speech.

Halonen and the Hungarian president spoke in their respective languages, and had translators who translated the speech into Russian. Ilves had no translator, as he was expecting it all to be English and Russian.

Then, today .. Konstantin Kossachev - the head of foreign affairs of the Duma, member of United Russia - held a speech at the conference, comparing the beatings of Mari representatives in Mari El to the way the fascist Estonian police abuses Russians in Estonia, claiming they killed Dmitri Ganin.

Ilves, and the Estonian delegation, got up and left the room.

Kossachev also accused Ilves of holding an inproper and unacceptable speech, as it was "political", and that was not OK. He had mentioned something about the right to self-determination Finno-Ugric peoples in Russia should have.

Have I forgotten something, or gotten something wrong?

Justin correctly notes that it's all bullshit. Neither country has anything to gain from all this posturing.

The person I really feel sorry for in this whole bullshit-o-rama? Tarja Halonen. On the one hand, she *knows* the Estonians are right here ;-) .. on the other hand, she has to continue to preserve the Finnish policy of playing nice with Russia. Being friendly with both Estonia and Russia isn't easy nowadays.

Hirnu-Hrnx! ütles ...

This is why polititians, prostitutes and criminals are highly compensated professions. They all have to deal with a lot of shit and swallow a lot of pride.

Hence the sinine vilkur entourages for politicos, lots of jewelry and makeup for prostitutes and macho swagger and bling bling for kantpead.

Rainer ütles ...

Hirnu, could you be more off topic?
It's either the drugs you're taking or the ones you should be taking.

Andres ütles ...

Actually, the first one to mention the fact that Ilves made his speech in English was Kossatšov. His statement was published all over the place, in RIA Novosti etc. He "found it odd" that Ilves was the only president to speak in English and as far as my crappy Russian goes, didn't mention the "confusement" about translators at all. Seems like the Duma is on an agenda.

Giustino ütles ...

The person I really feel sorry for in this whole bullshit-o-rama? Tarja Halonen.

And she gets nothing out of it. The timber tariff issue remains unresolved.

Giustino ütles ...

Seems like the Duma is on an agenda.

Ilves should make an unannounced pit stop at Vladimir prison cemetery to bring a wreath for Laidoner. That I would love to see.

Sven ütles ...

Hirnu needs to take Puu's drugs and Puu needs to take Hirnu's drugs?

Personally, I thought Hirnu was on a roll; he was even mentioned in an blog entry, although I believe his own personal long strange trip has taken him from Türi to DC, not Paide to California.

When you work it from one end to another like Hirnu does, the "all points in between" is a given; so perhaps not so off-topic. Before the sinine vilkur catches up to him.

Hirnu-Hrnx! ütles ...

Thank youuuu, Svenn! (For smoking for what I am smoking, I guess)

So let's see how off topic was I.

Well, look at it this way: this punkass Kossachev climbs onto the podium and starts scatting and dissing you like a motherf..r, be-bopping and scatting about you being a fascist and Ganin-murderer and shit ... now how hard is it to udnerstand that it sucks to be shat on like that. So Ilves got up and walked.

That's why we pay him the big bucks. That's all.

As to the the other better paid professionals, that stands as well. Facts of life. Not my fault.

Off topic?


Dwuaaaaaaaaah!?

What is the "topic" anyway?

Rainer ütles ...

Hirnu, I can see the light now.
Sorry. Peace out

martintg ütles ...

space_maze ütles...
There was already some BS yesterday at the opening of the congress. Tarja Halonen, and the Hungarian president, were told that they could give their speaches in their respective languages. Ilves and his staff were told that the working languages of the conference were English and Russian, and English and Russian ONLY. Which caused some resentment, oddly enough, when the Estonian delegation noticed this - AFTER Ilves' (English) speech.


I think Ilves should fire his assistant for not checking with Tarja's assistant first what language she was going to use in the speech.

martintg ütles ...

Giustino ütles...
Ilves should make an unannounced pit stop at Vladimir prison cemetery to bring a wreath for Laidoner. That I would love to see.


Has Laidoner remains not been returned to Estonia yet for a state re-burial?

Giustino ütles ...

Has Laidoner remains not been returned to Estonia yet for a state re-burial?

From what I understand he is in an unmarked grave in a prison cemetery, ie. nobody knows where he is buried.

AndresS ütles ...

The person I really feel sorry for in this whole bullshit-o-rama? Tarja Halonen. On the one hand, she *knows* the Estonians are right here ;-) .. on the other hand, she has to continue to preserve the Finnish policy of playing nice with Russia.

Well maybe it's time Finland pissed or got of the pot. What does Finland have to fear anymore these days? Drop the neutrality and stand for what you believe in.

tommy ütles ...

As usual todays Russian newspapers, engaging the ‘case of Hanto-Mansiisk’, omit all fragments of Kochachev’s speech, what lead to Ilves leave from kongress. Method they use of lie and for wrong opinion to the common Russians.

Jonas ütles ...


Well maybe it's time Finland pissed or got of the pot. What does Finland have to fear anymore these days? Drop the neutrality and stand for what you believe in.

As Bill Clinton said, It's the economy, stupid.

There was an interesting article in my newspaper last week interviewing Estonian business leaders who were all generally irritated by their government's politics towards Russia - basically making it next to impossible when trying to build new business relations with Russia.

Finland might sometimes seem as if it is a bit passive publicly (especially Halonen), but we get way more out of them that way than we would if we adopted the Estonian way of doing things. Of course, if we did, our nationalists would feel good - but the people who lost their jobs wouldn't.

The timber tariff matter was never going to be solved at this meeting. It's more a matter for the government not the president (indeed, presidents - I think real Russian decisions are Putin's after all). Plus, we now have the EU trade commissioner on side saying some quite harsh things towards Russia because of it (rather overshadowing the earlier EU-Russia summit). If this had happened because of some Estonian trade row, you can bet that Russia would simply say that "fascist Estonia" has got the EU up to doing its job. But because we have better relations, they are more likely to take it seriously when its at our initiative and find it less hard to just brush it under the carpet.

So, our policy is more to get as much out of Russia for Finland rather than being passive. Perhaps that looks the same sometimes - but is is more nationally patriotic to harm your economy but get to make rhetorical statements or to protect it? Perhaps you could say we are realists.

AndresS ütles ...

jonas - Good points. I know nothing about Russian-Finnish trade but thinking about it now it's probably a smart policy.

Karla ütles ...

Has Laidoner remains not been returned to Estonia yet for a state re-burial?

From what I understand he is in an unmarked grave in a prison cemetery, ie. nobody knows where he is buried.


In mid-October 1990 the chief correspondent of the Polish news agency PAP in Moscow phoned the ENS correspondent, and said that Polish Consul-General Mihal Zhurawski had interesting info on last years of Estonian forces C-in-C Johan Laidoner.

On 24 Oct 1990 ENS interviewed the Consul-General. It turned out that Zhurawski had been following the trail of former Polish Deputy Premier Jan-Stanislaw Jankowski and heard that he had spent the last years of his life in Vladimir Prison.

Jankowski was sentenced to 8 years in 1945. His sentence was up in 1953. At this time Jankowski was 71. Jankowski awaited his liberation and sent a letter to his wife and relatives in anticipation of imminent reunion. Death intervened. He died on 13 March 1953.

Consul-General Zhurawski travelled to Vladimir and there met with officials of the Interior Ministry, who revealed that Jankowski shared his grave with a prisoner No.11, who also died on 13 March 1953. Prisoner No.11 had been sentenced under Paragraph 58 §4 to 25 years imprisonment. The men were buried on 14 March at 15.20 at Vladimir municipal cemetery near the prison. Mihal Zhurawski asked the Interior Ministry to find out who prisoner No.11 was and received the reply -- Johan Laidoner, Commander-in-Chief of the Estonian armed forces. Zhurawski also found out that at the time there were four men still alive among prison personnel who dealt with interment of prisoners.