Tallinn is the capital of Estonia. It is its most populous city. Since the days of the Hanseatic League it's been an important commercial center. And today it is in the headlines because of the governments plans to relocate a war memorial to a cemetery.
The weather today in Tartu was sunny and mild. Students floated by in ambitious haircuts and apparel, making the most of a day after a cold winter. Beer flowed freely in outdoor cafes. Young people relaxed by the fountain in front of Town Hall.
The same is probably happening in cities all over Estonia today. In Pärnu, the very city where Estonian independence was proclaimed in 1918, all was peaceful. The same in Kärdla, Võru, Põlva, Haapsalu, and even in the real heart of Estonia, Paide.
But three years ago, in a small Estonian town called Lihula, the Estonian government removed another monument, this time one to Estonians who had fought in the 20th Waffen SS to -- as they say -- keep the Red Army out of Estonia long enough to restore Estonian independence.
That removal turned violent. Estonian protestors threw rocks and bottles at Estonian riot police. Because, you see, they were insulting their dead. And insulting the dead calls for a hysterical response. As a sidenote, it was also the end of the honeymoon for the government of Juhan Parts.
As I look at what is happening in Tallinn, I think back to a quote I read in a story about Lihula three years ago in The Baltic Times:
“It would be good if the government erected a central monument for all the victims of the war, regardless of which side they fought,” said one student. “Why not show a mourning mother that is crying about her son’s death!” It would illustrate the cruelty of World War II - and that everyone was suffering from it."
117 kommentaari:
http://vx.delfi.ee/image.jpg
live webcam looking at Pronkssõdur
This is going to get ugly.
No, it's not.
http://www.delfi.ee/news/paevauudised/eesti/article.php?id=15667346
there are thousands of people right now at the Pronkssõdur so they brought a watercannon or smth. WOW!
ETV and Postimees say it's about 1000. The water cannon hasn't been used and I don't think it will be.
http://www.sloleht.ee/
index.aspx?v=gallery&gID=65
- pictures of the water cannons and a helicopter and everything.
quote:
Kell 20.01 Tõnismäe kohal tiirutab piirivalve lennusalga helikopter.
Kell 20.20 Politsei on sulgenud ajutiselt inimeste tee Tõnismäele. Meie korrespondent teatas, et Vabaduse kella juurest ei pääse enam edasi. Roosikrantsi tänaval liigub hulganiselt vene keelt kõnelevaid noori, lilled käes, kes üritavad kõrvatänavatelt pronkssõduri juurde jõuda. Noortekamp ründas Tõnismäe tänaval operatiivautot, rebis uksed lahti ja kõigutas seda. Autol õnnestus noorte käest siiski pääseda.
Rahvast paistab Tõnismäel olevat hinnanguliselt ligi tuhande ringis.
Kell 20.31 Politsei tõi kohale veekahuri.
Kell 20.32 Rahvusraamatukogu esisel olevasse lipuvardasse tõmmati väike Venemaa riigilipp.
Kell 20.50 Politsei soovitas rahval laiali minna, vastasel korral alustab politsei rünnakut.
No, it's not.
Sorry it's already gotten ugly. Water canons, tear gas, rubber bullets, this is not pretty. Let's just hope that it doesn't escalate further.
Ega ma ässitaja ei ole, aga verd tahaks nagu ikka näha. :-)
Sorry it's already gotten ugly. Water canons, tear gas, rubber bullets, this is not pretty.
None of which has been used!
Ega ma ässitaja ei ole, aga verd tahaks nagu ikka näha. :-)
Eks sa lõika endale näppu siis. ;-)
btw I believe that tear gas has in fact been used!
I imagine various people all the way up to the Embassy are pulling some strings with some vague ideas of a Paris situation (I'm sure Ansip fancies himself a Sarkozy, too) -- but sooner or later everyone will be thinking about the long ride back to their homes in Lasnamäe, Maardu, etc. Too bad it's so warm, though -- 15 degrees at 2130 in April, any warmer and the water cannon might seem welcome to them.
I don't see how this can possibly help Estonia in today's media-driven world, even if the policing is professional, as I.m sure it is.
What's the estimated cost of this to the taxpayer, anyway?
btw I believe that tear gas has in fact been used!
A chief of police just told AK that it hasn't. ;-) There was a smoke bomb at one point, though. Don't know who used it.
i couldn't understand from the reports earlier today if it was a smoke bomb from the protesters or tear gas from the authorities. i actually thought it was the former, but i may be wrong.
What's the estimated cost of this to the taxpayer, anyway?
The taxpayer can go fuck himself. ;-) This is absolutely necessary, and everything so far has been done correctly.
because the price tag can't be cheap. that robinson has been circling for hours and drinking up some big bucks, besides keeping my son up!!
i can hear that helicopter too! :D
I live in Lasnamäe btw. :D
Come on, Kristopher! The future of the country is in the process of being forged. This is no time to be worrying about kroons and cents, nor whether your son gets sleep! ;-)
This is absolutely necessary, and everything so far has been done correctly.
While I agree that this is necessary at somepoint I don't agree that it has been done correctly. I think that the timing is wrong. This statue has been here without much incident for years, but now the government has decided to move it only weeks before May 9th. Could they not have done it on some cold, dark night in December?
Will Estonia make it into the evening news here? I doubt it.
Welcome to the world of tear gas and demonstrations.
I believe the Danes had to 'show force' last month just so they could tear down a condemned building that doubled as an anarchist hangout.
This statue has been here without much incident for years, but now the government has decided to move it only weeks before May 9th. Could they not have done it on some cold, dark night in December?
Yes, I agree with you to an extent. I meant that everything today has so far been done correctly. The overall planning has not been perfect.
I don't think it could have been done in December, though. There's lots of bureaucracy involved and it couldn't have finished much earlier, I suppose. It's essential to do everything by the book, i.e. by the terms of international agreements and Estonian laws.
Hmm, I wonder if Putin has decided that this is sufficient for get the tanks rolling toward Narva?
All said, it was becoming rather boring in Estonia lately. All the news out of the country were mostly for the computer enthusiasts.
At least we'll finally get some blood sport going. Maybe this is the time whe the heroes are made? Laulev revolutsioon was void of them. So lets kick ass.
Ah, so it got nasty after all. :-(
Latest news:
Politsei alustas pärast korduvaid hoiatusi Tõnismäel pronkssõduri juures erioperatsiooni, tõrjudes sinna kogunenud mässumeelse rahvamassi minema.
not the sound of cars backfiring? sounds like 300 meters, about the distance to the statue.
It has been nasty for more than half a century,hasn't it? Parem õudne lõpp kui lõputu õudus.
Absolutely! Hope noone dies, though.
and even in the real heart of Estonia, Päide.The heart of Estonia is called Paide.
Hmm, I wonder if Putin has decided that this is sufficient for get the tanks rolling toward Narva?
Putin's got his money in Switzerland, a pipeline planned to Germany, and a shrinking population.
The last thing he wants to do is pick a fight with "the EU's brightest new member." The Western Europeans will definitely care if all their investments in Estonia dry up, and it will take a total blockade of Estonia, like existed from 1944-1991, to keep it captive.
Hence, as Zhiranovsky said, they can't do anything about it. And honestly, it's not worth anything to them. They whine and complain about the rights of Russian speakers in Estonia, but when it comes to help them out or to help them repatriate, they'll barely spare them $5, even though they are swimming in money in Moscow.
So Russians in Estonia should understand that Moscow doesn't care, and that they are more valuable as pawns at conferences that genuinely being helped.
Moscow also doesn't care about monuments because it also moves them at will to make room for roads or shopping centers.
Finally, one could remind that technically, all those people who haven't taken Estonian citizenship are Russian Federation citizens. The RF is the successor to the USSR, and since USSR citizenship doesn't exist anymore, that means that the stateless in Estonia have a right to automatically receive a Russian passport.
So why aren't they helping them on that front? Because they are more valuable marginalized than aided. The pictures of people getting sprayed with tear gas are worth more than the money they pay their Internet propaganda crew.
you know what is ridiculous? no coverage at all on etv or tv3. i'm tempted to go to the statue on general principle, because I can't get any info or video. probably russian youth feel the same way. have seen many groups walking past my apartment toward süda/pärnu mnt. meanwhile süda has a traffic jam going the other way. thus pärnu mnt must be blocked. as i write this the jam seems to be clearing.
Anyone of you critics been to Estonia lately? In December the ground is frozen. Aka no digging possible. And as Ansip has said, as soon as the ground is melted and the weathers are decent, the excavations will start. Yes, the timing is a bit on the bad side but hey, you can't just postpone it forever if you have decided to do it.
ON "Kahvel" they are talking about the Prokssõdur issue right now. And there also was a reporter who gave an update about everything.
i heard that reporter. but compared to the text that is up on epl and postimees, not much else. when i turned to tv3, võrno and aarma happened to be talking about a band from saaremaa or something and i coudn't at first tell if it was a taped show or not! things are very quiet right now, gonna turn in.
somebody on TV said that the mad russians have already began to brake windows of the houses on the streets.
quote:
Politsei poolt pronkssõduri juures minema aetud ärritunud rahvamass on sisse peksnud mõned lähedal asuvate hoonete aknad, keeranud kummuli autosid ning loopinud politseinikke kividega. Väidetavalt on süüdatud ka Tõnismäel asuv puumaja.
It should be like in 1991 all over again. In order to keeo that nice legacy going, all estonians all over the country could now make their way to the T6nism2gi and just start singing and thus drown out the vile Russian protests. That kind of Gandhiesque peacefule counter-protest would certainly make the books. Imagagine tens of thousands of Estonians singing again in unison. Even russians would stop cursing become teary eyed over that. You know, they have, after all that mysterious Russian soul. We need to touch it in a good way. Russians are suckers for drama and sentimentalism. That would "kill" them. :-)
sorry about the typoes, I became too emotional myself....
wow. after seeing all the TV clips from Tõnismäe, all I can say is that I am shocked. I didn't expect it to be that bad. It's horrible here in Tallinn. I am considering now not to go to school tomorrow. :(
I didn't expect it to be that bad.
I certainly didn't, either!
On April 16, 2000, I spent the day surrounded in a similar situation at the World Bank IMF protests.
I have to say that I sort of found the chaos exciting -- the sharpshooters on the roofs, the helicopters circling above, the charging lines of cops, the anarchist Black Bloc turning over phone booths and destroying cars.
In fact, I think people sort of got addicted to it. I knew people that traveled to Davos and Genoa and Quebec City to hurl things at riot police over free trade agreements and such things.
And i have to say that back during that April, when it was over after two days, we all had to go back to school.
My friend in Seattle was at the "Battle of Seattle" in 1999 where he was gassed and his friends were hit by rubber bullets. Though not an experience to share, it's one I am sure he won't forget.
Besides, the cops have to use their rubber bullets and tear gas sometimes. What good's a water cannon if you can't use it?
I can see the Tallinn politsei and the Ministry of Defense getting really into this thing -- planning it, getting to use all their cool, expensive toys. This is what they train for.
yea but it's so scary for the average person. we don't know what to do at this point. if you sort of understand what I mean
yea but it's so scary for the average person. we don't know what to do at this point. if you sort of understand what I mean
Take it easy, Sten. ;-) The police will have the situation under control by morning. The average person should just get on with his life, and not get involved. It's just a riot, it's not war. :-)
But the police seem to be just sitting back, at least in commercial zones, and letting it play out. Looting has been uncontrolled from the Old Town to the Kosmos. A lot of boutique chains but there are a lot of mom and pop places too. When the stores are empty, it will be over.
I have never felt such hate for the Russians as today. After all the massmurders, rapes, deportations and humiliation, the dispicable lowlife worms still have the audacity to destroy and attack everything Estonian around them, all those innocent people that have to suffer.
Starting from today I am a profound russophobe.
When the stores are empty, it will be over.
I went to Tõnismägi and all I got was this lousy t-shirt?
...the dispicable lowlife worms...
Now that's what I call English :)
Anyone else having problems accessing Estonian websites? For the past 1-2 hours a lot of pages aren't loading from Toronto, checking the routing they seem to time out when they get to the source.
I have never felt such hate for the Russians as today. After all the massmurders, rapes, deportations and humiliation, the dispicable lowlife worms still have the audacity to destroy and attack everything Estonian around them, all those innocent people that have to suffer.
Starting from today I am a profound russophobe.
yes yes me too!!! :D:D Actually I've always hated russians. And now just everybody understands us - the ppl who hate russians :D
Anyone else having problems accessing Estonian websites? For the past 1-2 hours a lot of pages aren't loading from Toronto, checking the routing they seem to time out when they get to the source.
yea, I can't access Delfi and Postimees for example.
Giustino said...
...the dispicable lowlife worms...
Now that's what I call English :)
I apologize for the broken English, for the moment I am sort of incapacitated by hate. Odd, i have never felt this way before, I am a rather calm person in general.
No no, I was serious, good usage, Evil Purc.
It's kind of lame that they are trashing their own town now. That's the fastest way you lose the PR battle. Now Ansip gets to -- as someone said before -- play Sarkozy and dismiss the "hooligans."
Evil Purc well you have to understand that not all russians are like that and there are sick people like that in all nationalities and all groups... russians are suffering from this themselves and also they suffered from deportations and massmurders and everything you said aswell. theres no conspiracy against estonians by russians or anything. if you start hating all russians or something you arent much better than those rioting youll just be a mindless zombie :D
russians are suffering from this themselves and also they suffered from deportations and massmurders and everything you said as well.
I think a central issue in this whole mess is that the Russian Federation has not acknowledged what happened in Estonia in 1940, nor apologized for its actions in Estonia.
It's apologized for "Stalinist repressions" but there has never been a direct "we're sorry, won't happen again" from the Russian side.
That makes people deeply suspcious when Red Army vets gather at a monument in uniform.
I mean they are so worked up about this grave, but can anyone tell me where Jaan Tõnisson is buried?
You can't. But somebody please, ask Dmitri Klenski where Tõnisson is buried. Write him during one of his vanity sessions at Postimees.
Because we know where he was born. And we have photos and witnesses that document his life. But nobody can tell us what they did with his body after the NKVD, the father of the KGB, allegedly shot him in Tallinn in July 1941.
And that's what I am getting at here. There's zero empathy. The angriest the Estonians get is, "Fine, you can have your Bronze Soldier, but you'll have to lay flowers in the cemetery like everyone else."
But some of the Estonian Russians? Judging by their actions, they really could care less about any of Estonia's casualties.
And why is that? Why is there no empathy? And how can that be fixed without tear gas and water cannon?
For the last two or three years I have tried so hard to evaluate Russian people on their individual merits. I still love Dostoevsky, Nabokov, Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev and many other Russian cultural figures with all my heart, but I am afraid that from the immediate present to an indefinite time I am a mindless hatezombie in regard to the violent filth in Tallinn.
Sadly this is exactly what I expected. I'll agree with some of the comments above, watching these people trash Tallinn does nothing for their cause and simply convinces most people that moving the monument is the right decision.
Now the question is how long will it last and will it escalate?
appropriate:
http://img221.imageshack.us/
my.php?image=533598nmc7nicopy2to5.jpg
Calling people scum won't going to change their minds, dudes.
Better think up another plan.
I wonder what the coverage in the Russian media will be tomorrow.. Are they proud of what the "anti-fascists" are doing here or will there be some glimmer of remorse? Civility and honesty vs. the need to make Estonia look bad..
LMFAO sten. by what i saw on tv there quite many little girls screaming and drunk idiots. the ones rioting look like the most typical narkarid ja pätid(by what i have seen there are those in all nationalities) and i hope they will get to pay for all the damages :). Those cought on tape and who dont have the estonian passport should be sent to their motherland.
What im worried about is that now some Estonian idiots will gather up in a group and go get revenge...
I've heard that too. Probably in Hirvepark. Tomorrow 3 PM. that's all I've heard
What im worried about is that now some Estonian idiots will gather up in a group and go get revenge...
Yes, that would really suck.
The singing protest against the riots and for the unity (is there such a word?) of Estonia is an awesome idea.
Going and beating up Russians is the worst thing to do right now...
About hating Russians: well i know Russians who you really wouldn't guess that they are Russian by their ideas and the way they speak Estonian. I know a Russian for example who think those who haven't learned to speak Estonian and have lived here for years are idiots with no education and manners :D I really hope that there will be as little hatred towards Russians as there can be and well against any race, nationality or whatever else.
Does anyone know what is going on now? By what i saw on tv there was people at Viru so anything happening at the Viru keskus for example? I can't get in on the newswebsites... Anything in foreign press aswell?
A couple of hours ago there was an article in BBC News, but I think that was nothing special. An hour ago I too couldn't access Delfi.ee, but now I can so you should too, if you had the same problem as me - too many ppl on the delfi.ee site.
Come on people. No singing, no fighting. There are still bones to be dug. And when they are finally all dug up, we will then survey the damage -- and decide where to bury the bones. Perhaps the square kilometre of utter desolation surrounding the former bronze soldier will be a quiet enough area to give the Red Army the peace they so deserve.
wow guys. due to the complete lack of any coverage whatsoever in the english language media of the interwebs, i've seen the entire thing play out via comments on this blog. scary stuff...
i can think of one way to counteract russia's shrinking population problem.....
guys give me links to videos!!!!!! i want to see this!!!!!
Videos:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nqCLzNlZYEQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wZRmGIOZrhc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9QDVq-lFASM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EPuXvzaMsp8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mj3o8JaIiok
http://youtube.com/watch?v=scnjmsbf49k
Pics:
http://www.postimees.ee/galerii/index.php?picture=18697
Russian version of the Laulev Revolutsioon? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jX80pwVKfk
The Russian media's take on what happened today: The Estonian state brutally surpresses a peaceful demonstration of Russians.
I should have known...
Hmm. Where is our national hero Kalev Rebane ans his jobukakud friends when vaenlane is on the streets? Where are all our skinheads? They are missing the fight, damn it? Sitting somewhere, drinking beer while some skulls are begging to be cracked out there. :-)
Brutal? Peaceful? Wtf? I did not even see any police anywhere. Not even a siren in the background. Imagine this happening in Moscow or Washington. The crowd would have been supressed by overwhelming force just like that. Here it was pathetic. I wonder if Russian TV channels even got any useful footage for their propaganda. They would have to do a "re-enactment" type of thing to convince their public.
What I saw of the revolution:
I'm sorry to say that I had a gut feeling since early this week that this was going to happen.
Why I went to Old Town tonight was a mixture of stupidity and num-nuttery.
I love near Kristiine Keskus, and by 8 the trollybusses and busses were going to the center. I walked up Endla, got as far as the backside of the national library, but there were thousands of russians packed into the square. I did see the water cannon.
I decided to try the back side of the library and cut to Parnu mnt. When I got back there, there were a pack of Russians trying to break the back gate to clamber over the top of the building. About 20 Estonian black-clad stormtroopers suddenly came down the stairs, threw flashbangs and shot off tear gas. I got enough of a whiff to do my best rabbit impersonation all the way to Parnu mnt.
I got there just in time to see people smash in the kiosk across the street and the liquor store, all around Kosmos theatre.
Made it all the way to Nimeta baar in Old Town for my friends. Several panicked phone calls from my girlfriend convinced me that I should try to come home. But my choices were walking the same way, or taxi. Taxis weren't coming close, and Parnu mnt. had turned into a Paris suburb. I didn't even consider walking Endla.
About 30 minutes later the first wave of Russian jackals showed up in Old Town (there were three waves). I would say that 80 percent of the stores on Suur-Karja had broken windows. Nimeta was one of the ones that were spared, but that's because there were about 20 people from the bar standing in front doing spontaneous guard duty.
The only thing positive I did all night despite consuming numerous double-vodkas happened then. I came out, just in time to see a Russian punk pick up a construction barrier, and then smash the window of the coffee shop next to Nimeta. Something clicked in me, on the level of "it's on, biatch". I took his photos, sprinted after him to get a face shot. When I saw a police vehicle on Viru about 20 meters ahead, I sprinted there, and asked if any of the cops spoke English. They all did, I told them what I had witnessed, that I had photos, and they took him down with extreme prejudice. Bam! 7 seconds later he was handcuffed and in the back of their van after getting a faceplant. I gave them my business card, and I will be happy to testify against the little worm.
After the final two waves of looters and smashers past through, we decided to go home. I think this was about 1:30. We got as far as Parnu mnt. across from the Estonian theatre, and then realised that hundreds of police were surrounding old town, had nightsticks, and were getting to squeeze the entire area. We beat a hasty retreat back to Nimeta, until we left about 3:30. I walked home on Parnu mnt.
I would say that about 30-40 percent of the businesses in Old Town suffered some damage. Some, like jewelery stores, were sacked. A waitress at Power Station (best hamburgers in Estonia, bar none) got a brick in the face from some punk who threw it through the window.
Every business between McDonalds and the Kosmos theatre on Parnu mnt. has been smashed up (ironically, the McD's was spared) Several kiosks were completely destroyed, and one set on fire to boot. All the tram and bus stops demolished. Traffic lights, too.
I'm too tired and pissed off to discuss WHAT IT ALL MEANS this morning. I will just end by saying that the police, from what I saw, operated completely honorably, and Estonia should be grateful to them that it wasn't much worse.
Sounds like a scene from Kristallnacht, 1938...
http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/383640
=/ The Russians can really be proud of themselves now
Sounds like a scene from Kristallnacht, 1938...
Sounds like Woodstock '99
Looks like it too, judging from the Postimees photo gallery.
Okay, a huge cheer for the Estonian govt.
If my limited Estonian isn't betraying me, they had an emergency cabinet meeting. Their decision: The Bronze Soldier is gone.
It's 7:45 a.m. It's already hauled out of the square. IMO, that's the best possible response to last night.
Apparently the worst of the teenagers' ire was directed at liquor stores, a 24-hour grocery and a bar (ironically called Woodstock). At least on the segment of street I walked down. Who'd a thunk it, after all the talk of politics, Stalin, etc.
Where are all our skinheads? They are missing the fight, damn it?
I was in Juuksur last night. About 22:30 a friend called and updated me.
One girl there said that Savisaar's jeep was assaulted by Russians in front of the mayor's office X-D
In Levist Väljas, I saw two metal-people with bloody hands. The guy said that he kicked in the Rockstars' (skinhead and metal bar in Tatari st) window to make himself look OK enough to let go. The ususal bunch of skinheads came out of the Rockstars and came in again very quickly.
Hello. I'm an anonymous tolerant. I just took a one-month vacation.
@scott: nicely done. those idiots don't understand that amateur and press photographers were taking corpus delicti everywhere....
also mr President should have a nice surprise for them today, aga ärme rutta asjadest ette (:
@sten: you stay at school at 15 o'clock. police knows about that gathering anyway... trust me on that.
It does not sound like "Kristallnacht". It sounds like the stupid clashes on 1 May in Berlin. Young folks who need a reason. And police who could not handle things in the first years when it started.
Okay, a huge cheer for the Estonian govt.
Indeed! And the police. Well done!
And police who could not handle things in the first years when it started.
I'm honestly happy that it was solved with a rather mild use of force by the police.
The material damage is, in the end, insiginificant. That's what insurance companies are for. The political damage of a brutal police response would have been a much worse thing.
I cannot resist copying my post to A Day in Tallinn here, so that the blogger will really read it. Here it is: I am one of the rare natives of Tallinn whose parents and grandparents lived there. No Justin could make me nervous with his comments, no hideous Viru centre, because it is my home town (not city). As I am travelling a lot around the world, I still prefer my home town. I have seen SO many foreigners who ARE nervous, because they believe that the simpleminded Estonian students and otherwise Estonians who have no taste nor order are the rule. Meeting my family has always made SUCH foreigners (but not the others) nervous. You know what? If you came to Estonia to have the confirmation that only people like you live in this blessed land, you are bitterly mistaken. That is why even the smell of almonds drives out the rage in you. By the way, you do know, don't you, that underneath Estonians there is German aristocratic culture? Underneath only, as I said. But enough to drive you nuts, ha?
Interesting post, anonüümne. What's it about?
I have seen SO many foreigners who ARE nervous, because they believe that the simpleminded Estonian students and otherwise Estonians who have no taste nor order are the rule.
Huh?
Meeting my family has always made SUCH foreigners (but not the others) nervous.
Huh?
You know what? If you came to Estonia to have the confirmation that only people like you live in this blessed land, you are bitterly mistaken.
Huh?
That is why even the smell of almonds drives out the rage in you.
It wasn't rage, it was queasiness. It's like when you go to an amusement park and eat too much cotton candy and go on a rollercoaster ride.
By the way, you do know, don't you, that underneath Estonians there is German aristocratic culture? Underneath only, as I said. But enough to drive you nuts, ha?
?
Interesting chess game by the government. First, guarding the Bronze Man site tooth and nail -- and leaving valuable commercial property elsewhere in Tallinn completely undefended. Tsk tsk. Then, diverting the crowd down the logical routes to easy looting areas where they basically expose themselves as the bunch of drunk teenage louts they are. Effective. In comparison, the June 1940 "demonstrators" would be people you'd like to have to dinner. The only death -- a stabbing of a Russian by a Russian. Probably over a bottle looted from a store two feet away or something.
Then, in one sweeping decision when everyone is asleep, the government pledges state money to cover storekeeper losses and to punish the perpetrators, they do it -- they take away the beloved Bronze Man to prevent future occurrences.
Or they say they did. Who knows what is going on in the tent. Maybe this is where the magician comes in, the one who said he would make him disappear. To be continued...
@kristjan
comparison with German police in the 80s is wrong. Correct myself here.
Kuiv seadus? Wtf? That's not very Estonian, now, is it. I just walked through the office, brandishing a litre of Rock. Secretaries were amused. :-p
IMO, Estonia just won the propaganda war on this. Game, set and match.
The police now have a hunting license to crack skulls from here on out.
After last night, anytime the Putin Federation wants to squeal of this issue, Eesti just needs to trot out video of "the defenders of the Bronze Soldier" looting liquor and jewelry stores.
I was so mad and pissed off about my experience last night that I couldn't sleep until 8 a.m. Now I'm so amazed at this development I can't sleep now, and it's 10 a.m. I've been up 26 hours now.
Hats off -- the Estonian govt. has a couple of big ones. And they're big and bronze :)
Who knew?
Who knew?
I had faith. 'Tis, after all, the least bad government in Eastern Europe. :-)
I'm very proud
so you guys are hating the russians now..huh, well, poor guys. just a quote of one of my favorites, Hermann Hesse "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us."...what happened in Tallinn last night is neither Kristallnacht nor a "memorial war"...just drunken punks as you can see them in berlin on the 1st of may, just stupid jerks, people without dignity nor qualities...and btw, if russians make riots or estonians posing in SS-uniforms (as recently seen on magazin cover page)... for me it just proves that stupidity does not have a passport...
"if russians make riots or estonians posing in SS-uniforms"
Deeem - only people I have seen wearing nazi-symbolics have been russians in Russia. What cover I wonder...?
actually sort of a militaria magazine or hunting stuff...anyhow, i didn't want to buy because for me as german its just awkward to see people posing like this...didn't want to deal with it at all...
Excellent action by the government in removing the thing at once in the immediate context of the rioting. The media in Finland has shown much footage and it certainly hasn't increased sympathy for the Russians. The official tone no doubt will include some sanctimonious advice but the public opinion I think is quite solidly on the Estonian side. I saw one burned R-kiosk on the news and reflected that the staff probably was Russian - wouldn't be surprised if this would turn out a total PR disaster for the defenders of the monument.
@agu-enrik ubailves...well, I dont agree on it that SS uniforms are connected to culture or life...i would agree on that SS destroyed both, culture and life where ever they appeared...you know, dress like that in germany, france, britain or spain and you will be treated like a terrorist or at least like a retarded...!...well, just go to jad-vaschem and explain the connection of SS and culture, and life and that Hitler is just the smaller evil...
i am off the topic !
I wonder what the local Russian papers are writing on topic. I hope that most Russians will reject the vandals.
http://temp.matude.com/300.jpg
stupidity has no homeland, no passport....
why? did it fail the language test?
the Pres will give its adress today 12:00 on ETV
check it out, if you can
it will make news
Ilves made a nice speech. The interviews with ETV were a bit disturbing. Anybody with a brain agreed that the looting was awful. BUT young teenaged Russians said that it's going to get worse and that it's their right because it's their country too. Looks to me as if the Estonian educational system has failed :/
Andres, one of the truths in life is that young people are stupid. :-) When one gets older, one acquires the ability to see things in colour, instead of only black and white.
DasT, "Kultuur ja Elu" is a freak magazine nobody takes seriously anymore... it is full of articles about conspiracy theories and if I am not mistaken, UFOs... comparable to "Kolmas Silm" or "Ärgake" or sth, only in different style and for a different audience. It is not like any real cultural magazine like Vikerkaar or Looming... even Muusa can be taken more seriously.
mh, what's wrong with Muusa? it's a popular culture magazine. it's good that it exists.
Yes, nothing wrong with that Muusa exists... remember, i said it's better than Kultuur ja Elu.
Maybe it is just me... i read cultural magazines like some people read Kroonika - to see who does what - and Vikerkaar satisfies this need better than Muusa at the moment ;)
Muusa seems to me like a cross-over between a lit-mag, music mag and Stiil.
Ultimately, the way a country treat other countries is the way they eventually be treated. Russia seems to be near economic bankruptcy but has a far worse problem of being morally bankrupt! Putin cannot allow any opposition or freedom of speech in Russia but will encourage riots and destruction when it serves his interests elsewhere.
What is happening in Estonia is sad and painful but I support the moral stregth of this tiny country for realizing Estonia should do what is right for Estonia!
Interestingly, I saw the water cannons out driving in the streets today, over by Tammsaare/Järvevana. It's slightly alarming for me as a Swede - where we don't have a single water cannon. It looked exactly like the croatian ones, though solid gray. Which were involved during the riots? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Policijski_vodeni_top_CVT-6000.JPG
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