“I drew attention to this in Estonia. Millions of people have no status. It is unbelievable that there are so many people living in civilized countries and having no status. We shall take the issue to the Council of Europe. Those countries must observe minority rights”
-- Rene van der Linden, President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, in Lithuania today.
According to the Estonian Ministry of the Interior, as of July 2007, out of the total Estonian population of 1,342,000, 8.5 percent, or roughly 114,000 people are still stateless.
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Heh .. from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_van_der_Linden)
During a press conference in Tallinn on Sep 19, 2007 he falsely accused Estonia of not giving foreigners from outside the EU the right to vote in local elections.
.. a right Estonia gives that not many other EU countries do. Holland does not
When meeting with members of Estonian parliament he also refered to the living conditions in Belarus stating that the citizens there live without problems and are in peace with themselves.
Somewhere out there, a red nose is missing its clown.
Technically speaking, when he says that "millions of people have no status" he's not speaking only about Estonia, but also about Latvia and Lithuania, but still there aren't "millions of people" who don't have citizenship.
By millions he must mean the overall state of the human condition in today's world - undocumented uzbek guestworkers in Russia, boatpeople on the coasts of Malta, victims of human trafficking in the middle of Europe, victims of forced prostitution and slavery etc.
All these invisible people are not voting anywhere. They are voiceless. "Mr. Vandersell" is apparently speaking on their behalf. He's simply dreaming of a better, kinder world. A world without cruelty. A just world. A world where an elderly senile people like himself are not made fun of and left in peace to sit out their terms in impotent eurobureaucracy ...
The quote was in the context of Baltic citizenship policies. As far as I know Latvia has around 410,000 stateless. That means we are talking about 520,000 people.
Not to minimize their issues, but you'd think the guy could get his numbers right.
On a non-Estonia related note, the kind of healthy society that van der Linden seems to consider admirable:
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2007/09/24/003.html
The irony is seriously lost on them, methinks.
Giustino said...
The quote was in the context of Baltic citizenship policies. As far as I know Latvia has around 410,000 stateless. That means we are talking about 520,000 people.
It's really an issue of personal choice, and the authorities are right not to impose citizenship on those who may not necessarily want it. Given the Latvian education reforms have been in place since 2004, and the fact that Russian and Latvian languages share the same linguistic roots, I really can't see that language would be a barrier to citizenship in Latvia.
if this individual's comments deserve any response at all (and i don't think they really do), simply pointing out the percentage of non-estonians who have received citizenship in the last 15 years via the government's existing programs, i think they will appreciate it's been a largely successful program -- and the government shouldn't change it because some uninformed bureaucrat thinks some regional statistics look bad -- not even taking into account those that don't want estonian citizenship.
In case someone missed it...
Ärapanija made fun of mr van der Linden last Sunday.
Go to www.tv.ee and choose Ärapanija from the left-side menu.
The bit about van der Linden is in the very beginning.
The amazing thing concerning numbers is the possibility of cutting it down to size. Latvian sounds precisely like Russian except for the factor of it being spoken in Latin alphabeticals.
Well, Eesti is too far down the naturalization path to change horses.
I recall Klenski in the debates in March said citizenship should be for all people born in the territory of Estonia.
And yet, according to the 2000 census, some 190,000 people in Estonia were born in Russia.
So even if you used the Klenski model, the situation would still not be solved.
So what can Estonia do to make the process go faster? That is the real question -- one that no one is answering.
For some the question would be does Estonia have to do something about it? I mean we have been having lots of non-citizens for 16 years and can be having them for the next 20 years mentioned by van der Stool, or Linden, until we don't so we have already solved the problem like 40%, 60 more to go til it will have solved or what is the correct future sense. Or the sense of future.
Latvian sounds precisely like Russian except for the factor of it being spoken in Latin alphabeticals.
For the sake of being argumentative, Latvian does not sound precisely like Russian. Perhaps it is a case of being familiar, or not, with either language. Latvian is written, not spoken, in "Latin alphabeticals".
Coming back to the topic of this thread, I am stunned that such a high-ranking official (presumably) can be so poorly informed about a situation arsing in one of his constituent countries. Or did he simply choose to take sides (as I believe he did)? I do hope his Estonian hosts set him straight.
"arsing"?!?
Talk about your Freudian slip!...
I meant to say "arising", if anyone cares to believe me.
You should have seen his reaction when at the press conference he was asked point-blank whether his personal financial interests in Russia have come to cloud his statements as a Eurocrat. He was visibly shaken on being called on that. Somebody should investigate further and drag this mother out into the spotlight.
Pierre, As a Frenchman or whatever you portend to be you are not familiar with Latvian. It is a Balto-Slavic language. Don't make me belittle you Pierre.
Latvian sounds precisely like Russian except for the factor of it being spoken in Latin alphabeticals.
I have to very strongly disagree with that. The sounds are completely different (Latvian Ls are somewhere between Czech Ls and Finnish Ls, but nowhere close to Russian Ls, the vowels are different, the vowel/consonant ratio is different, ..), the vocabulary is vastly different, and most importantly, the intonation is completely different. Latvian has been influenced sufficiently by finno-ugric languages that words always start stressed, and loose stress as they go along - unlike in Russian - or Lithuanian, for example. Just for that, Latvian already sounds a lot less Russian to me than Lithuanian, for example - which has its word stresses all over the place.
Random Latvian:
http://www.tv.lv/
Random Lithuanian:
http://www.tv.lt/
I can't quite decide what Latvian sounds like. It's either a drunk Swede speaking Russian, or a drunk Russian speaking Swedish. I've yet to decide which one it is.
Folks,you are drawn into discussion with my doppelgänger.
Giustino, would you please kick the guy with empty ubailves profile out?! Liba-Ubailves has been fouling the air below four last postings.
And I guess it was Pierre the dopplegänger was arguing with.
It seems it's Pierre from La nouvelle Europe. That's a fine project and they have been to the Baltics. And he is one of the few voices from France around in the Estonian-English language blogosphere.
http://www.nouvelle-europe.eu/
I can't quite decide what Latvian sounds like. It's either a drunk Swede speaking Russian, or a drunk Russian speaking Swedish. I've yet to decide which one it is.
The phrase for goodbye "Uz redzešanos" always reminds me of my favorite Mexican dish, chiles rellenos.
By the way, just as all Russians look like Brezhnev, all Latvians look like Kārlis Ulmanis. I guarantee you that even Pēteris will start to look like Ulmanis if you stare at him long enough.
Moin Jens-Olaf!
I cannot take credit for being associated with La Nouvelle Europe since I am not associated with it in anyway. I am a French-Canadian who has taken an interest in things Baltic/Nordic, in particular Latvia.
I have recently been having stress in my life. I state certain things and say it is my doppelgänger.
Hey guys, can I get some of that what you are ingesting? Doppelganger? (wtf?) Di-do-di-do-di-do ... Look at me, I am wearing a lampshade ... Ha-ha-ha.
Thanks for linking our website :-) there are so few people carring of the B-states in France ... I'm often reading yours :-) tx
Philippe from Nouvelle EUrope
Philippe, Pierre,
m'excuse, mais le "profil" confondez-moi
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