tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post94196683142168657..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: LatvianizationGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-89562378357511278112009-06-16T16:39:12.649+03:002009-06-16T16:39:12.649+03:00It’s a very nice blog for...
I have been visiting ...It’s a very nice blog for...<br />I have been visiting blog for several months...<br />I would request you to write about Eco-friendly, green sustainable architectural designs...<br /><a href="http://www.architectsban.webs.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">architects in bangalore</a> ,<a href="http://www.seekangroup.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> architects in bangalore </a> ,<a href="http://www.interiordesignersbangalore.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> interior designers in Bangalore</a> ,<a href="http://www.interiordesignersinbangalore.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> interior designers in Bangalore</a> ,<a href="http://www.architectsbangalore.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> architects in bangalore </a> , <a href="http://www.architectsinbangalore.co.in/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> architects in bangalore </a> , <a href="http://www.seekangroup.com/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow"> interior designers in bangalore </a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-65135803669239896592007-06-27T19:21:00.000+03:002007-06-27T19:21:00.000+03:00Alternatively, make that a beer-drinking support g...Alternatively, make that a beer-drinking support group for mercantile Protestants getting over a really incredibly bloody history.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17153530634675543954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-82999582335378452942007-06-27T03:21:00.000+03:002007-06-27T03:21:00.000+03:00...Politically Moderate Beer-Drinking Protestant M...<I>...Politically Moderate Beer-Drinking Protestant Merchants' Club, which is ok, but a little vague...</I><BR/><BR/>europe?klxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02756387772020517484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-18470061231276703552007-06-26T15:00:00.000+03:002007-06-26T15:00:00.000+03:00I have to say I find it hard to imagine how you ca...I have to say I find it hard to imagine how you can be Nordic without also being Baltic. After all, it's one of the parts of the world where the sea connects more than it divides, and everybody but the Norwegians shares the same one.<BR/><BR/>And you have to take a broad (but historically defensible) view of that to hack it enough to get Iceland in. But nobody would argue they shouldn't be.<BR/><BR/>If you rely on that, though, you'd have to include Scotland, Holland, and quite possibly Yorkshire and Ireland. And can anyone make a reasonable case to leave the Germans out? One of the biggest historical commonalities is German influence, and that even goes for Sweden (there's a great big German church in the middle of Gamla Stan, for god's sake).<BR/><BR/>In which case you end up with a sort of Politically Moderate Beer-Drinking Protestant Merchants' Club, which is ok, but a little vague..Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17153530634675543954noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-92193540959683422322007-06-22T20:36:00.000+03:002007-06-22T20:36:00.000+03:00You and your blog inspired me to post this, Justin...You and your blog inspired me to post <A HREF="http://lettonica.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">this</A>, Justin. Long live Letto-Estonian solidarity!Pēteris Cedriņšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14427626605836088551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-43743207150314238502007-06-20T22:37:00.000+03:002007-06-20T22:37:00.000+03:00Reminder: none of this text is trying to make a po...<I>Reminder: none of this text is trying to make a point that we're more Scandinavian, therefore better.<BR/>We're poor relatives of Scandinavia! :)) We know it :))<BR/>But my Lithuanian friends somehow ask still every time: "So how's life in Scandinavia?"<BR/>What does this say?</I><BR/><BR/>Ilves was asked about Baltic solidarity during a recent interview with Bloomberg, "ie. how are your fellow Baltic states taking the recent cyber attacks"<BR/><BR/>The first country he mentioned in his reply was Finland.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-67154838314484537582007-06-20T21:31:00.000+03:002007-06-20T21:31:00.000+03:00PS: By many social theoretics a national identity ...PS: <BR/>By many social theoretics a national identity is a modern "thingy" and it started with the French Revolution. National awakening, movements and nation based states is a modern symptom. In the era of 12th, 13th or 17th century there was no NATIONAL awareness anywhere (in it's modern meaning). Also these theoretics say that national identity is being produced in each case, in is not something essential. Identity (especially modern identity) is flexible and influenced by the society, history, politics etc etc. <BR/>Identity is what you see yourself, not what others see you. So if Estonians feel they're more Nordic than Baltic, then it's THEIR identity. <BR/>I don't think it's because Estonians think they're better. It's with finns connected to language, literature and culture (even during Soviet era there was connection). So they were in a way "supporting". Now we held common singing and dancing fests, singing in both languages. And I've sang in a choir and it wouldn't work so easily if I would have to sing in Latvian. :(<BR/><BR/>Language, being rare, is a very strong part of the identity of Estonians. As we can understand the finns and not Latvians (sadly), it's shows our "common roots". <BR/>Myths (like "Kalevipoeg") are directly building every nation's identity. "Kalevipoeg" is pretty accurate still in Estonia, although it's not being taken as a truth. But it doesn't matter, as now Kreutzwald is myth. <BR/>It's not being better or more successful or something like that.<BR/>It's just how you feel yourself. I guess Estonians have double identity: solidaruty to other Baltic states and common history but in some points we're culturally very far away. From 12th till the 18th century, I don't think we ever really had much to deal with eachother, we didn't have solidarity. If we had, no German or Russian would have managed to turn us slaves. <BR/><BR/>Baltic solidarity is a very new thing. It's mainly with the roots going to 80-s. <BR/>During the first Republic Estonian elite was discussing either to look to Germany or Finland and WEST in general. Famous quote "Become Europeans but remain Estonians."<BR/><BR/>There was no discussions about being Baltic. <BR/>Swedish satellite option was discussed. All eyes were North and West. But obe thing was clear: very away from Russia. <BR/>For russians we were and are "judõ" (weirdos, different). We always speak with very bad accent while Latvians and Lithuanians are more talented learning at least this language...<BR/>Face it, Latvians make the same jokes about Estonians as the Russians do (being slow etc)<BR/>And I always laugh ;)<BR/><BR/>Many foreign and local theoretics say that the era of russifications and Soviet times didn't change the much longer "communication" with Danes, Finns, Swedish and Germans. Russia's power in this land compared to Germany's power is much smaller.<BR/><BR/>Reminder: none of this text is trying to make a point that we're more Scandinavian, therefore better.<BR/>We're poor relatives of Scandinavia! :)) We know it :))<BR/>But my Lithuanian friends somehow ask still every time: "So how's life in Scandinavia?"<BR/>What does this say?Crazy Worldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612095068315176644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-45796956274723032712007-06-20T20:35:00.000+03:002007-06-20T20:35:00.000+03:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.Crazy Worldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09612095068315176644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-29216036285345386292007-06-20T16:37:00.000+03:002007-06-20T16:37:00.000+03:00I'm curious -- why did you wait until 1934 to crea...<I>I'm curious -- why did you wait until 1934 to create the holiday? Here it dates to the Constituent Assembly that first met in 1920. At the time, the holiday caused further friction with the Baltic Germans.</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps it was to appease the portion of the population sympathetic to the Vaps, especially after the coup in which their candidate, Andres Larka, was arrested?? <BR/><BR/>I wonder if Larka would have sold out Estonia like Laidoner and Päts did. Ah, the great what ifs of history. Goes to show you that democracy is better than dictatorship.<BR/><BR/>That's why Putin scares me. It's not that he's going to do something really bad, it's that he is setting up the conditions for another one of those big crisis periods in Russian history.<BR/><BR/>Things are going fine now, but if the economy goes into the toilet, and you have two parties running things that do not tolerate organized dissent or challenges to policy, you are setting the conditions for undemocratic revolt.<BR/><BR/>There's no way those United Russia guys would give up or share power now. That means that if policy needs adjustment, it would have to be adjusted by undemocratic means.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-20515907335954299672007-06-20T10:31:00.000+03:002007-06-20T10:31:00.000+03:00So, hmm... all those livonian-SMSing teenagers are...<I>So, hmm... all those livonian-SMSing teenagers are in for a nice surprise when they visit Estonia;)</I><BR/><BR/>The young Livonian poet Valt Ernštreit studied in Tartu. Here are <A HREF="http://www.suri.ee/il/98/3/valt.html" REL="nofollow">two articles about him,</A> in Estonian.<BR/><BR/>Happy Võidupüha, by the way, if I don't get back here before then -- we celebrate the same event, though it's not a holiday and outside of the Cēsis (Võnnu, Wenden) area many have forgotten why the flag flies. <BR/><BR/>Interestingly, you began celebrating it (1934) when we <I>ceased</I> to do so -- General Balodis, who stayed neutral in those battles, was a co-conspirator with Ulmanis in the 1934 coup and didn't like to see himself overshadowed.<BR/><BR/>Also, we mark the 22nd (when the decisive battle took place) and not the 23rd, which perturbs certain elements because the 1919 date is the same as the 1941 date that many <I>do</I> remember... <BR/><BR/>I'm curious -- why did you wait until 1934 to create the holiday? Here it dates to the Constituent Assembly that first met in 1920. At the time, the holiday caused further friction with the Baltic Germans.Pēteris Cedriņšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14427626605836088551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-70234073874054723002007-06-19T17:17:00.000+03:002007-06-19T17:17:00.000+03:00Ach, my initial post was somewhat badly written.Th...Ach, my initial post was somewhat badly written.<BR/><BR/>Thing is, schools enjoy a relative freedom in choosing what they offer, as long as the basic required package is provided. This basic package includes 2 foreign languagues, usually chosen in 3rd and 6th grades - or pre-chosen by the school. Other than EN/DE/RU the languagues on offer depend largely on availability of teachers.<BR/><BR/>I had most of my schooling in pre-1991 times, therefore I had compulsory russian from 2nd grade, and could choose between english and german in 5th, then in post-1991 time 'had' to take up german in 10th as it was only choice left (well, there was swedish, but... no contest).<BR/><BR/>Of course that was when the holy quartet of PRO7/RTL/RTL2/SAT1 had been among the first western channels viewable over here for a couple of years, so most of my friends had fairly good command of the languague when we 'started' learning it.<BR/><BR/><I>Uldis Balodis has nice Livonian pages here.</I><BR/>Bloody hell... apart from the funny latvian transliteration, it appears that livonian is quite a bit closer to estonian than finnish. Didn't know it was so similar.<BR/><BR/>So, hmm... all those livonian-SMSing teenagers are in for a nice surprise when they visit Estonia;)Tiamsuuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952757522614139811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-78634504523971708112007-06-19T14:37:00.000+03:002007-06-19T14:37:00.000+03:00I could freely choose between English, Russian and...I could freely choose between English, Russian and German. There just aren't enough teachers for other languages in Estonia in my opinion.<BR/><BR/>Of course when I started school in 1995, English was the only thinkable first foreign language although some chose German as well. So I chose English in 3rd grade. You had to choose a second language in 6th grade. I chose Russian because well.. Russia is a big country right next door etc. In 10th grade I could choose a third language as well, but it was voluntary. So I chose German but only studied it for 2 years.<BR/><BR/>I think the popularity of Russian is going to fall in the near future. The Russian text books are just too unfriendly for children. Your average English or German textbook is a glossy new book with pictures and interesting exercises etc. Your average Russian text book is dull and difficult. Extremely hard to comprehend and not well done in my opinion. It feels like they think Russian is still the only universal language and it's natural that everybody's proficient at it. Well they aren't. And shitty material makes children even more hostile towards it to be honest. I wish I had chosen German. A much more pleasurable language and Germany and it's cousins are nice European countries where I would be willing to spend some time.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17076822279861048442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-56323152345098088002007-06-19T13:09:00.000+03:002007-06-19T13:09:00.000+03:00(so we basically could to choose between three dif...(so we basically could to choose between three different packets - French, Russian and English; English, Swedish and Russian; or English and Russian and lots of mathematics and stuff like that)plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-39438828954107939332007-06-19T13:05:00.000+03:002007-06-19T13:05:00.000+03:00The usual choice is between english, german & russ...<I>The usual choice is between english, german & russian, with many schools offering more options like french, spanish, swedish.</I><BR/>This is a bit misleading.<BR/>Dunno what school you or your kids went to, but I surely didn't have much choice - all the three foreign languages were absolutely compulsory for language-class pupils and Russian was one of them. The math-physics class had two, English and Russian. Sure, before the start of the high-school we had the choice between two different language classes, but afterwards things were pretty determined.<BR/>The system hasn't changed in my old school, as far as I know.plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-13182135309926879382007-06-19T10:42:00.000+03:002007-06-19T10:42:00.000+03:00Uldis Balodis has nice Livonian pages here.Uldis Balodis has nice Livonian pages <A HREF="http://homepage.mac.com/uldis/livonia/livlang.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A>Pēteris Cedriņšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14427626605836088551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-69921255895921858812007-06-18T19:36:00.000+03:002007-06-18T19:36:00.000+03:00It even seems that the national anthem of Livonia ...It even seems that the national anthem of Livonia has the same melody as the national anthems of Finland and Estonia.<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min_iz%C4%81m%C5%8DUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17076822279861048442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-75245520665067353742007-06-18T18:12:00.000+03:002007-06-18T18:12:00.000+03:00hmmm.. I checked Livonian from wikipediaIt is quit...<I>hmmm.. I checked Livonian from wikipedia<BR/><BR/>It is quite similar to estonian.</I><BR/><BR/>Indeed, neither of the examples of Livonian in that article needed translation. <I>Raandal(ists)</I> - randlased, <I>kalamied</I> - kalamehed;)Tiamsuuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952757522614139811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-34249634674553209772007-06-18T18:04:00.000+03:002007-06-18T18:04:00.000+03:001991 was the cutoff year or russian learning in Es...1991 was the cutoff year or russian learning in Estonian schools. Before that, it was compulsory - from 2nd grade right to the end.<BR/><BR/>Post-1991 russian is just one of several languagues that are offered. The usual choice is between english, german & russian, with many schools offering more options like french, spanish, swedish. Kids have the chance to study 2 languagues at school and more often than not russian doesn't get picked as others are deemed more useful.<BR/><BR/>Russian is used in ex-USSR. Tourists expect to use russian in ex-USSR. Well, we don't want to be ex-USSR. As russians say - 'speak human'.<BR/><BR/>I myself often met the balts' tendency to employ russian as a base 'international' languague during the 90s. And I met the estonians' stance of feeling offended by it - USSR has fallen, one didn't 'have' to speak russian anymore - don't you know any other languagues?<BR/><BR/>With estonians as touchy about languagues as we are (and that's very damn touchy), I've often wondered if that reluctance of balts' part to say goodbye to russian wasn't the very reason why baltic solidarity never really got off the ground.<BR/><BR/>It's been mentioned above that estonians hang around with nordics when working abroad, and I can say that I've found it to be a rule, not an exception. I haven't participated in EU/EEA workgroups myself for some years, but my friends who do still talk about where they dined and what club they went to after work with 'denmark, sweden, finland, etc' - the usual crowd.<BR/><BR/>The focus on a Nordic identity isn't something that was thought up by someone - it just came to us naturally. One can't remain ex-USSR forever.Tiamsuuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952757522614139811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-83166470204209217672007-06-18T17:50:00.000+03:002007-06-18T17:50:00.000+03:00By the way, some here might be interested in this ...<I>By the way, some here might be interested in this article on Livonian.</I><BR/><BR/>hmmm.. I checked Livonian from <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livonian_language" REL="nofollow">wikipedia</A><BR/><BR/>It is quite similar to estonian.Indrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06136397475453220381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-73854872920335862582007-06-18T17:39:00.000+03:002007-06-18T17:39:00.000+03:00Excellent post Walter. This deserves better than ...Excellent post Walter. <BR/><BR/>This deserves better than to disappear into the archive of countless anonymous blog threads.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-85644714674345907662007-06-18T16:12:00.000+03:002007-06-18T16:12:00.000+03:00But the whole motivation question strikes me as ra...<I>But the whole motivation question strikes me as rather silly -- every language is worth learning and opens an entire world. Russian isn't just spoken in Russia, either -- the owl's tail will bloom, to use a Latvian expression, when it ceases to be an important tongue in Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Central Asia, and the Caucasus.</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe we are all in denial here, but I don't see it being that important in Estonia. It's an important, but not the most important foreign language. We'll see what happens when the post-1991 generation takes over and they don't use it. It's obviously important when it comes to reading the Russian news and in politics, but Swedish and German are also very important.<BR/><BR/>I am very interested in what the Swedes are reading about Estonia because certain things, like Estonian interest rates, are de facto set in Stockholm. I am more interested in what the Germans and French think about the EU than what Russia thinks, because they still are the motor.<BR/><BR/><I>As to the alphabet -- what, maybe Hebrew, Arabic, Georgian, Japanese, Armenian, Korean, Greek, etc., should all be written in the Latin alphabet?</I><BR/><BR/>How many people do you know that can read Japanese or Greek? It's for scholars or people who get trained in those tongues, not really for the man on the street. My roommate took Japanese in college, a *big mistake* if you ask me. Definitely not for the faint of heart. My other friend is a linguist and he can speak Chinese. He is more cut out for that kind of thing.<BR/><BR/><I>I'm not suggesting that Russian be a required subject, and I've met young Latvians who haven't learned it -- mostly because they've learned other languages instead (and that sometimes includes even "less useful" tongues -- Estonian, Lithuanian, Hebrew, Swedish, etc.). No problem.</I><BR/><BR/>I am here in New York right now. I hear Russian every day. But I also hear Spanish every day. Spanish is a HUGE language. Yet for whatever reason, it's not that important here. Sure it's important in customer service, and it helps to know some to help unilingual Spanish speakers out when they get lost, but I am not going to read the Spanish press to find out what's going on, I am going to read <I>The New York Times</I> and the <I>Wall Street Journal</I>. That's sort of what I am referring to when I talk about "importance."Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-81386210124068503952007-06-18T14:06:00.000+03:002007-06-18T14:06:00.000+03:00For political junkies and some businesses it's per...<I>For political junkies and some businesses it's perhaps invaluable. But outside of that, where's the motivation?</I><BR/><BR/>Drama, poetry, prose and films that are essential to each of those arts. Even Russian TV can be exceptional -- try to see the recent <I>Master and Margarita</I> miniseries, for example. A serious study of history in this part of the world requires at least a working knowledge of Russian (and German, of course). <BR/><BR/>Some business, yes -- but the "some" is a lot, even if trade with Russia has dropped precipitously. Take, for instance, tourism -- a study of tourists in Latvia last year showed that Russians tend to stay longer and spend more money, and they also tend to be more cultured than the stag party and vodka tourist crowds. Tourism has an important side benefit -- those who visit get to see "Baltic fascism" first-hand, helping to dispel the noxious myths.<BR/><BR/>But the whole motivation question strikes me as rather silly -- every language is worth learning and opens an entire world. Russian isn't just spoken in Russia, either -- the owl's tail will bloom, to use a Latvian expression, when it ceases to be an important tongue in Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. <BR/><BR/>As to the alphabet -- what, maybe Hebrew, Arabic, Georgian, Japanese, Armenian, Korean, Greek, etc., should all be written in the Latin alphabet? <BR/><BR/>I'm not suggesting that Russian be a required subject, and I've met young Latvians who haven't learned it -- mostly because they've learned other languages instead (and that sometimes includes even "less useful" tongues -- Estonian, Lithuanian, Hebrew, Swedish, etc.). No problem.<BR/><BR/>By the way, some here might be interested in <A HREF="http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2610591,00.html" REL="nofollow">this article on Livonian.</A>Pēteris Cedriņšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14427626605836088551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-81436479380845635882007-06-18T08:34:00.000+03:002007-06-18T08:34:00.000+03:00I think the only reason why Estonians know so much...I think the only reason why Estonians know so much Russian is that it was compulsory in the Soviet era. Because at the moment I see very little motivation to learn Russian. Almost nobody uses it in daily life or to get information (except for maybe me, because it's sometimes humorous to read Russians write about "nazists v Estonij", gives you a pretty good laugh at their intelligence every time ;)). All the crap coming from Russia doesn't do well for the reputation of Russian either. I mean, why should I want to learn the language of communists, drunks, schauvinists, the people who have conquered our people and refuse to accept it.. repeatedly. Also the alphabet was the biggest mistake Russians have ever made to be honest. In a whole there is just very limited useful information coming out of Russia at the moment. Why should I want understand it? I believe I could find more motivation to learn Swedish, German or French. Comes down to the fact that it wasn't us who alienated from Russia, Russia made us alienate from itself.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17076822279861048442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-39252780319831035932007-06-17T18:03:00.000+03:002007-06-17T18:03:00.000+03:00I'm not fond of the direction Latvia is currently ...<I>I'm not fond of the direction Latvia is currently taking, but neither do I believe it is possible or desirable to turn our backs upon Russia, Russians, or the Russian language.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that some considerable 'back turning' has already taken place, to the extent that the current rising generation of Estonians view Russian as something quite foreign, even though they may live a few miles from thousands of them. This has its sad sides and its positive sides.<BR/><BR/>This is also facilitated by the general anonymity of Estonian public life, this 'I don't touch you/you don't touch me' thing. So even if your police uniform says your name is Maksim Ivanov, it makes no difference when I ask you 'mis kell on?'<BR/><BR/>One could interpret the riots in April as a 'call for help' but the reality is that most 20 year old Estonians didn't understand that call. Or as one policeman, obviously imported from outside of Tallinn, that I saw on the news told a protestor 'ma ei saa aru. ma ei oska vene keelt.'<BR/><BR/>It seems a bit surly to 'turn ones back' but at the same time there is little engine for Russian language acquisition. Estonians learned it in the army or in school I guess, but it is a hard language for Estonians to speak with difficult sounds and complicated grammer -- for a Finno-Ugrian.<BR/><BR/>To give you an example, Estonian students in Tartu are pretty interested in watching the Daily Show, which is in English. But what is being said in Russian that is so important that you have to switch alphabets? For political junkies and some businesses it's perhaps invaluable. But outside of that, where's the motivation? <BR/>This is the tyranny of American entertainment. <BR/><BR/>I mean I can watch Swedish TV because it's fun to pick out the Germanic roots from the gobbeldygook. If you listen enough and read some tabloids, you can start to put some sentences together. <BR/><BR/>I can watch Finnish TV to see how Estonian compares. If you are a little drunk, you can even try to speak Finnish :) But Russian TV? That's a whole other skill set. That would entail checking books out from the library and actually <I>studying</I>. And who wants to do that on a Sunday afternoon?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-46747407048864092872007-06-17T17:22:00.000+03:002007-06-17T17:22:00.000+03:00I should add that I had had many glasses of wine a...<I>I should add that I had had many glasses of wine and had been reading America: The Book</I><BR/><BR/>I'd had what you call <I>viin</I>, which word confused me terribly when I was first in Estonia ("vīns" in Latvian is wine)... likewise, my apologies for any attempts at humor or sarcasm.<BR/><BR/><I>What you see? Latvians, Lithuanians and the rest of CEE bunch gather together, ten years ago they also almost always used Russian for communication. Estonians rarely went to that group, either sitting with Finns and Swedes or Western Europeans.</I><BR/><BR/>But I've experienced some absurdities in that realm -- Estonians abroad refusing to use Russian with me (whose Russian is wretched) despite their poor English, even to find the washroom...<BR/><BR/>In the main, though, Estonia seems far friendlier towards the use of the Russian language than it was during the occupation; many of my friends remember being sent on wild goose chases simply because they used Russian to ask directions. This was envied as "backbone"...<BR/><BR/>I'll close by repeating what I've said in different ways in reaction to many a thing you've written, Giustino -- we're tiny countries next to the largest country in the world, with a lengthy common history and large Russian minorities. I'm not fond of the direction Latvia is currently taking, but neither do I believe it is possible or desirable to turn our backs upon Russia, Russians, or the Russian language.Pēteris Cedriņšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14427626605836088551noreply@blogger.com