tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post7341945389818321246..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: soomeGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-20449998426495911252018-07-20T07:30:05.597+02:002018-07-20T07:30:05.597+02:00Invest in Ripple on eToro the World’s Leading Soci...<a href="http://forex.syntaxlinks.com/r/eToroRipple" rel="nofollow"><b>Invest in Ripple on eToro</b></a> the World’s Leading Social Trading Network.<br /><br />Join 1,000,000's who have already found easier methods for investing in Ripple.<br /><br />Learn from profitable eToro traders <b>or copy their orders automatically!</b>Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-78990626741978933952017-08-11T09:19:38.570+02:002017-08-11T09:19:38.570+02:00YoBit enables you to claim FREE COINS from over 10...<b><a href="http://btcx.syntaxlinks.com/r/YoBit" rel="nofollow">YoBit</a></b> enables you to claim <b>FREE COINS</b> from over <b><i>100</i></b> unique crypto-currencies, you complete a captcha one time and claim as much as coins you want from the available offers.<br /><br />After you make about 20-30 claims, you complete the captcha and keep claiming.<br /><br /><b>You can press claim as many times as 30 times per one captcha.</b><br /><br />The coins will <b>stored</b> in your account, and you can convert them to Bitcoins or USD.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-3376678384797716082012-12-01T04:37:07.746+02:002012-12-01T04:37:07.746+02:00Making babies is an expensive investment and if yo...Making babies is an expensive investment and if you want your children to succeed in life, twice as costly. Education begins at home and with the current economy no mother can stay at home. How can a man support hes wife and 3 kids with the average Estonian wage? The answer is he can't, not without working abroad.<br /><br />Also the feminist movement as opposed to women's advocacy, that is more common in Estonia, is seeping in from the West. The Gender roles will get muddier and muddier as time goes by until we get the same state the rest of the West is in. <br /><br />Women/Men moaning about where have all the Good Men/Women gone. All the while not seeing that the core of a society isn't the individual but the family.Alo Avihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03773306585172403707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-18425708046681537132012-03-27T14:42:22.323+02:002012-03-27T14:42:22.323+02:00'As true as this is there is also the problem ...'As true as this is there is also the problem of well, how are you going to determine if people WILL work hard?'<br /><br />Well, it's like with everything, really. How do you know that tourists staying at your hotel won't trash the place? How do you know that the new neighbours who just moved down your street won't be pesternig you for petty stuff like salt/sugar, borrowing your phone, asking for lift to places etc. The thing is you'll never know but there's also a way to avoid these things.<br /><br />You see, some hotels always get smashed up, and some people are always pestered by their neighbours but some never are. And why is that? It's about the setting, the environment, the mannerisms of an individual/organisation, it's about how we conduct ourselves and how we come across. And people do take notice.<br /><br />It's the same thing with immigration. Do you actually know anything about immigration to Western Europe? Did you know that new non-EU migrants are at first kept in detention centers (essentially a prison, from where you might be getting couple of hours of leave in a day), surrounded by barb-wired fences? Did you know that they keep small children there aswell? Did you know that they are not allowed to work for years and when they eventually do get moved on, they are often housed at the most deprived areas in inner-cities? These people face discrimination and hardship every step of the way and when at one point someone has had enough and takes it out to the streets in peaceful protest, they are often confronted by the English Defence Leagu or BNP (I'm talking about Britain here). And then it makes it to the news in Estonia, and Estonians often snear at the migrant communities, a la, 'aren't they awful'. I'm sick of it and I think it's about time these myths and fairytales about immigration would be crushed.<br /><br />The bottom line is that if you treat someone badly, that someone at one point will have enough and will raise against you. And that is not because they are rioters in nature, as it is a popular view in Estonia, but they are simply standing up for themselves.<br /><br />Now, the question often rised in regards to immigration in Estonia is - if we import the people, would we be importing their problems aswell? Answer to that is yes and no. It depends on of how much notice will we be taking from Western Europe. Do we repeat their success and their failure aswell? Or can we be smart about it and get it right from the beginning?<br /><br />The only thing I would be worried about are the Estonian people themselves. What do we have actually to teach to these newcomers? Where do our values stand? Does hard work still pay in Estonia, like it used to do in Tammsaares days, or is it about something else? Is every household still 'sacred' in Estonia (including households of sexual minorities) as it was drafted for our first constitution? We are a nation of no faith, but can we live side-by-side with people of many faiths?<br /><br />We need to get these big questions answered first so that the newcomers will know what it is they are actually getting involved in. And then... well, only sky is the limit.Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-4061446802260792682012-03-27T13:45:56.008+02:002012-03-27T13:45:56.008+02:00Just goes to show that Poles, Slovaks and Czechs a...Just goes to show that Poles, Slovaks and Czechs are not considered "Slavs" in everyday language around here. I guess they're just considered "Europeans (from former Eastern Block)". And I guess that most people hardly think about Slovenes or Bulgarians at all when talking about "Slavs".plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-22634616832924277392012-03-24T15:26:04.244+02:002012-03-24T15:26:04.244+02:00"Prodigy, there are plenty of people in Eston..."Prodigy, there are plenty of people in Estonia with Sub-Saharan backround who have integrated to the point where they are now considered Estonian... ...Therefore your claims are somewhat ignorant or even cynical, to put it mildly."<br /><br />I am sorry if I sounded "ignorant" as that was not my intention. Part of the reasoning is due to brevity. I may not have expressed myself fully. Yes, most people of Sub-Saharan ancestry are actually fairly quick at adapting to their host countries, in fact based on my personal experience of living in various countries (Canada, Sweden) I actually think people of Sub-Saharan background are actually better at "integrating" into Western "cultures" than people of ancestry from the Indian Subcontinent or East Asia (specifically China) for example (if you wish for me to expand on this, I can). I'll admit I have no idea how many people of Sub-Saharan descent live in Estonia (do you perhaps?), so I won't dwell on the matter here further. Actually when I was thinking of Sub-Saharans with a poor history of integration I was thinking specifically of Somalis, but then again many Somalis in Western countries are only 1st or 2nd generation so it'll be determined how well they integrate only after 1 or 2 more additional generations.<br /><br />"Our historical experience is that Slavic people in general are hard or near impossible to integrate"<br /><br />Well now I can accuse you of being the one that is cynical (no offence). In Germany for example, there are up to 2 million people of Polish ancestry and you'll find many Germans with Polish-sounding surnames. However, these people identify as Germans and have little or no connection with Poland other than their surnames and are fully integrated into German society. Interestingly enough, I'll add that there are many Poles in Poland who have German-sounding surnames but fully identify as Polish, just as an example I'll use the historically important Plater Family. Even in Estonia I'll use the example of musician Tõnu Trubetsky, his father is of Polish descent but he is 100% Estonian.<br /> <br />"We need good and able people, willing to learn and work hard. We don't need people just for their certificates and diplomas."<br /><br />As true as this is there is also the problem of well, how are you going to determine if people WILL work hard?<br /><br />There's also the question of demographics. In countries like Germany or Sweden prior to the mass influx of immigrants from the 60's onwards these countries were very homogenous (well over 90%), in Estonia less than 70% of the population is Estonian. For Sweden and Germany who were both homogenous importing some diversity was not a big deal, however in Estonia's case there already is a fair bit of diversity. This is part of the reason I always find it interesting when Estonians discuss the integration of potential future immigrants when they have a large Russian minority, many of which aren't even integrated nowprodigyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11025489082322562690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-21046656662248433832012-03-24T14:02:06.578+02:002012-03-24T14:02:06.578+02:00Prodigy, there are plenty of people in Estonia wit...Prodigy, there are plenty of people in Estonia with Sub-Saharan backround who have integrated to the point where they are now considered Estonian. Where as there are plenty of Belorussians and Ukrainians who have not managed to do that even over three generations. Therefore your claims are somewhat ignorant or even cynical, to put it mildly.<br /><br />Our historical experience is that Slavic people in general are hard or near impossible to integrate, while Central Asians (Estonias muslim communities), people of Siberia (people with Finno-Ugric backrounds) and Western Europeans (Germans, Danes, Swedes, Scots etc. who have arrived in these shores in great numbers over the centuries and are present in nearly all family-trees of Estonian people, if you dig deep enough in church records) integrate relatively well.<br /><br />We mustn't also forget that a country is a natrual habitat for it's people. It is not a company, looking out for profit only.<br /><br />Immigration rules should be relaxed but in a way that these would benefit people who seek better life here, want to make this country their home and are willing to work for it, or people who are escaping war etc. Skills of individual migrant are irrelavant in the long run, as we would still have to train their family members and offspring therefore that is an 'illusionary' requirement. We need good and able people, willing to learn and work hard. We don't need people just for their certificates and diplomas.Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-68440381426731277442012-03-24T00:41:14.310+02:002012-03-24T00:41:14.310+02:00And yes, I'm aware of Iceland's current fi...And yes, I'm aware of Iceland's current financial woes, I was speaking more on standard of living than economic conditionprodigyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11025489082322562690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-7040145117773803872012-03-24T00:35:18.471+02:002012-03-24T00:35:18.471+02:00"Not everyone is happy with this development ..."Not everyone is happy with this development but there aren't many countries that managed to reach Western standards of living without immigration and/or a higher birthrate."<br /><br />Japan and South Korea have managed to reach high standards of living without any real immigration (I am aware that Japan is facing long term population decline, however).<br /><br />"Currently there are no signs that Estonians will make significantly more babies and even if they would they will only be able to work in about 20 years while the labor shortage will arise much earlier."<br /><br />This is true. However, it should be noted that generous child support policies in Ukraine in the last decade or so have dramatically increased the birthrate, so Estonia could perhaps learn something from this. In Estonia, the main problem is emigration, since the natural population growth has actually been stable for several years now (not growing though, just stable). There is also the issue of "brain-drain" were educated people emigrate. Like I said before, fortunately most Estonians opt to emigrate to Finland which is close enough to Estonia that they or their offspring may return.<br /><br />"Estonia can learn from the mistakes Westerns countries have made and design a more productive immigration and integration policy."<br /><br />This sounds like a good idea in theory, but in practice it becomes more tricky. For example, in Finland they often view Sweden's immigration/integration policy as a good example of what not to do (This is my opinion kicking in, but Sweden's immigration/integration policy is actually a pretty big failure). Yet, Finland does not have a selection system, so in the last few years there have been at least a few thousand immigrants a year immigrating who experience has showed us will have difficult integrating in society. To paraphrase what I'm saying is in Finland the attitude "Oh, we don't want Sweden's immigration/integration policy!" is what is preached, but in reality they are actually faithfully copying it more and more with each passing year.<br /><br />"It depends on the background of the people you let into your country. Integration of Spanish, Italian, Greece and Polish people went relatively smoothly while with Turkish and Moroccan peope it's more difficult."<br /><br />If Estonia wishes to avoid many of the problems Western European nations have faced with xenophobia, immigrant unemployment, crime, etc the only way to do it is to either selectively pick their immigrants or to not encourage immigration in the first place (the latter is actually counter-intuitive since there will always be at least some immigrants anywhere you go). Personally I think you provide a good example here. If Estonia will go for immigrants from countries like Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Bulgaria and Macedonia or even countries further afield like Georgia or Armenia I don't think they'll end up with any integration difficulties/societal tensions versus if they started to attract immigrants from say African countries or non-secular nations in the Middle East which history has shown integrate poorly into European society.<br /><br />The next 20 years are very critical to see what sort of a nation Estonia will become. My hope is that it'll be more of an Iceland-scenario (that is, wealthy, high birthrates, low number of immigrants/successful integration of immigrants) than a Germany-scenario (wealthy but with low birthrates and a poorly integrated immigrant/immigrant descent population)prodigyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11025489082322562690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-9987754801710721122012-03-23T23:58:30.480+02:002012-03-23T23:58:30.480+02:00"Really, the only viable long term solution I..."Really, the only viable long term solution I can see for Estonia is to encourage Estonians to have more babies and additionally to discourage permanent emigration abroad, especially for young people with highly specialized skills and who are highly educated."<br /><br />I aspected this answer. Currently there are no signs that Estonians will make significantly more babies and even if they would they will only be able to work in about 20 years while the labor shortage will arise much earlier.<br />I'm from Belgium and very familiar with the issues you mention. In the 50's and 60's we had huge inflows of emigrants to counter labor shortages in certain industries. A lot of these people and their descendants are now unemployed, but still, without them we would not have achieved the enormous growth rates in production and improvements in the standard of living in the fifties and sixties, as the labor of these people was really needed back then (notice also that at the same time we still had a high birth rate among Belgians and almost no unemployment). Actually, Belgium, being the first industrialized region on the European continent, has had large inflows of immigrants since its independence, most of whom integrated within two generations. It depends on the background of the people you let into your country. Integration of Spanish, Italian, Greec and Polish people went relatively smoothly while with Turkish and Moroccan peope it's more difficult. Estonia can learn from the mistakes Westerns countries have made and design a more productive immigration and integration policy.<br />I must also say that contrary to Germany our population is not declining nor will it decline in 50 years according to the most recent projections. We even don't have enough schools for all children since earlier it was predicted that the number of children would decline while actually the number increased in recent years. Since 1990 our population increased from 10 million to 11 million, mostly due to immigrants and their offspring. Not everyone is happy with this development but there aren't many countries that managed to reach Western standards of living without immigration and/or a higher birthrate.Temestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614591949410689858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-68585649408302878522012-03-23T23:06:08.527+02:002012-03-23T23:06:08.527+02:00@ Temesta
As oxymoronic as it sounds, importing f...@ Temesta<br /><br />As oxymoronic as it sounds, importing foreign workers to a nation is actually not a long term solution to combat labor shortage. <br /><br />I will use Germany and Sweden as examples. Both of these nations have a long history of attracting immigrants and foreign workers, originally this was meant as a way to combat the very labor shortage Estonia is facing today (the Germans called this gastarbeiter). Sweden and Germany are now going on nearly half a century of being countries of immigration. The irony is that both countries are facing long term population decline, even though they've both had 40+ years of consistent immigration. <br /><br />The very age structure of Germany, Sweden and Estonia are all remarkably similar to each other despite the different immigration policies and political backgrounds Germany and Sweden have had compared to Estonia in the last 50 or so years. In Sweden as of 2010, only 15.7% of the population is between the ages of 0-14, in Germany it is even lower at 13.9% while in Estonia it is around 15%. A healthy level is at least 20% or higher. <br /><br />Also worth noting is that while the number of immigrants/people of immigrant background in Sweden and Germany is consistently increasing, the number of native Swedes and Germans is actually decreasing in their respective countries. For example, in Frankfurt, Germany, one of the largest cities in Germany as of around 2010 40% of the population was of non-German origin. However, for people under the age of 20 this figure was around 64%. This means that in 40 or so years, ethnic Germans will actually be a minority in one of their own major cities (surprisingly these figures are similar throughout all the major German cities and is many ways present throughout Western Europe (the Netherlands and France are particularly extreme examples, but I won't dwell on stats here).<br /><br />My point is not to try and sound xenophobic nor that Estonia shouldn't have any immigrants (that would be silly), but rather learn from the mistakes of Western European nations rather than repeating them (In Germany there are about 4 million people of Turkish background, the majority of which are extremely nationalistic to Turkey and refuse to integrate, even 1.6 million of them still hold Turkish citizenship). My other and more important point is that while attracting workers might be a short term solution, as examples in Western Europe have shown, it is not a viable long term solution. <br /><br />Really, the only viable long term solution I can see for Estonia is to encourage Estonians to have more babies and additionally to discourage permanent emigration abroad, especially for young people with highly specialized skills and who are highly educated.<br /><br />I remember reading about the medical university in Tartu, how 80% of medical students there are studying Finnish with the hope of eventually moving to Finland to practice medicine. In many ways I guess Estonia is blessed that the most popular destination of emigration is Finland which is so close to Estonia. Latvia and Lithuania have it worse for example, many young people have immigrant to far-flung places like the UK and Ireland while Estonians only have to go next door.prodigyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11025489082322562690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-77935258166902833232012-03-23T20:06:03.075+02:002012-03-23T20:06:03.075+02:00A problem that's easy to fix if it would becom...A problem that's easy to fix if it would become easier for companies to attract workers from foreign countries (poorer countries outside the European Union). But in this case Estonia's love for the free market clashes with nationalism.Temestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614591949410689858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-26426072896677073372012-03-23T18:32:04.067+02:002012-03-23T18:32:04.067+02:00Answer: Lack of qualified workforce.Answer: Lack of qualified workforce.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-22477597121878299732012-03-23T15:10:59.577+02:002012-03-23T15:10:59.577+02:00To: Liivimaa parim ratsutaja
Why do you say Eston...To: Liivimaa parim ratsutaja<br /><br />Why do you say Estonia is no longer an entrepreneur's paradise?Blogeditorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01916087720843890922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-78618206128279692922012-03-22T23:01:22.864+02:002012-03-22T23:01:22.864+02:00I hear you. It all may seem very complicated, but...I hear you. It all may seem very complicated, but I happen to know perfectly normal and reasonable Russian people. It really gives me a lot of hope.<br /><br />There are nice people everywhere. The thing is, we ourselves have to be nice and my point is that we keep falling short in that regard. <br /><br />We know that we do (deep inside we do, look past the shield of arrogance) and then we behave weird toward each other. <br /><br />That weirdness erodes, corrodes and squanders trust. And TRUST is a form of capital which we have precious little to go around in Estonia to begin with. The end result is that you can't deal at the open market with the big players when you lack that kind of capital at home.<br /><br />True, we do have some pockets of it. For example, I am sure it is the level of accumulated trust inside the Skype team that allows them to play in the big league. But looking around the business and social landscape, and just aroudn you in general ... you don't see much of trust, do you?<br /><br />What we need more of is trust. It is hard to get and easy to squander.<br /><br />Scepticism is a poor partner for building trust, building capital, bringing about progress.<br /><br />Scepticism is an excellent partner for want, poverty, disease, disappointment ... all the other non-virtues there are out there.<br /><br />And we like to be such proud sceptics. It is such a self-defeating attitude. <br /><br /><br />I could go on and on, but the message is simple to each and every one of us - try to become a better person, let bygones be bygones. Educate yourself of things that enoble you. Start building trust by starting to trust yourself of being able to become a better person.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-17005903563415304352012-03-22T21:50:11.829+02:002012-03-22T21:50:11.829+02:00Marko are you blaming Latvian and Lithuanian oliga...Marko are you blaming Latvian and Lithuanian oligarchs shortcomings on Russian mentality?(Finns must be immune, right?) Its kind of like blaming Lithuanian chronic alcohol abuse on Soviet mentality. <br />Perhaps blaming others for your own problems is Soviet Mentality, we see it often with V. Putin. Who is responsible for anti-Putin protests? USA and Mrs Clinton, who else, I guess :)PTIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05618749081217592645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-85998505722700810282012-03-22T14:55:43.925+02:002012-03-22T14:55:43.925+02:00I'd make one more point on the subject.
Latvi...I'd make one more point on the subject.<br /><br />Latvians and Lithuanians are doing business with Russians. Are they better off than us? Nope. Instead the money ends up in the pockets of their oligarchs who then invest it in prime real estate in London or New York, or just keep it in off shore bank accounts or tax havens. It just shows that if you do business with that kind of people you also import the mentality and the so called set of values. I think these values are not suitable for Estonians. And the proof of that is out there - we have stayed clear of it alltogether.<br /><br />Don't fix it, if it ain't broken!Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-60079887586094602172012-03-22T14:28:44.390+02:002012-03-22T14:28:44.390+02:00Well, I was just saying the truth. Everybody think...Well, I was just saying the truth. Everybody thinks that way but noone likes to put it out there. Remember the early 90's? We were doing business with Russians then. And how did that look like? Assasinations, car bombs, people taking their kids to school in armored vehicles, gangs and mafia... Do you really want that back on our streets? Don't think so..<br /><br />In my ideal world, I suppose, I would like to see St Petersburgh declared as a special economic area in state interest. I would like to see Enterprise Estonia taking some of their capital there and helping to set up small and medium size businesses and showing them how to do business our way. Theres nothing idealistic there, the Finns did it in the early 90's in Estonia and pulled us effectivly out of the 'gutter'. If we could do something similar in St Petersburgh (I would leave the rest of the Russian Federation out, for obvious reasons), well, that would be something to be proud of.<br /><br />I'm not saying no to Russian cash alltogether. I'm saying no to dodgy dealings with criminals and current state companies of Russian Federation as their legitimacy will for sure be questioned in maybe not so distant future by the wider Russian public. We are seeing singns of that already.<br /><br />Besides, in the end of the day it's up to the individuals what they want to do. Nothing wrong in being idealistic nor oportunistic. But it could be a good idea to excersise so caution. Take a step back and think it through.Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-15715589079021693212012-03-22T12:30:09.296+02:002012-03-22T12:30:09.296+02:00Perhaps we should synthesize the viewpoints of LPR...Perhaps we should synthesize the viewpoints of LPR and Marko in a way where we do business with people who do not share our world view while still keeping in mind that we have the truth - it's the other guys problem if he doesn't believe it and him not believing it doesn't make it any less true. We just won't be able to call them friend.<br /><br />But you don't necessarily have to be on friendly terms when doing business. You don't have to be nice with these "heathen goyim" ( to borrow some Hebrew words here ) only diplomatic and smart to get the best possible deal out of them.onryoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15941777782042315020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-27863037901549605422012-03-22T04:18:52.300+02:002012-03-22T04:18:52.300+02:00Marko seeks truth like Vargamae Andres. He is an ...Marko seeks truth like Vargamae Andres. He is an idealist. It is charming.<br /><br />Remember what happened to Andres? He became sad and angry in his quest for truth toward the end.<br /><br />We need to be more like Pearu with Russia. They mess with you, you mess with them, you dance. You lie, you smile, you praise them while you hate them ... you know - politics. Pearu's "talupoja tarkus" beats Andres' any day. <br /><br />WHO CARES 50 YEARS FROM NOW?<br /><br />Was it REALLY a good idea to not to play ball with Rooskies regarding the North Stream? OH, we are so proud, we are Estonians. We are victims, occupation, deportation, gulag, suffering, bla, bla, bla ....<br /><br />Don't you want to live? I mean, now?<br /><br />So why buy the SS calendar? How is this going to help you? Materially. It is an effin joke.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-74750360815055021862012-03-22T02:52:56.799+02:002012-03-22T02:52:56.799+02:00Marko,
People hate USA too! But it doesn't pr...Marko,<br /><br />People hate USA too! But it doesn't prevent them from doing business with America. If you gonna take 'high moral' ground with Russia and hurt yourself, WHO THE HELL CARES! <br />50 years from now nobody will care what world was like in 2012.PTIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05618749081217592645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-51941579447598125322012-03-21T12:58:35.787+02:002012-03-21T12:58:35.787+02:00Ivo (Liivimaa parim ratsutaja), I do respect your ...Ivo (Liivimaa parim ratsutaja), I do respect your point of view but I also respect the one of my dads. I mean his values are good values and we should not compromize on these. It's not called stupidity, it's called standing your ground. Western world starts with town of Narva, and people living in todays Estonia reflect that - there has never been any greater contrast to the East and West as it stands today. Finns can do all they want (I'm actually half Finnish myself) but in Estonia I believe, the route chosen is the right one. We have to nurture our business in 'Western embrace' for a bit longer and soon enough you will see there will be plenty of venture capitalists to whom 'blood diamonds' and 'Russian oil money' are just another investment projects. Our dignity is important to us, I believe, and we shouldn't give in just for a quick-quid here and there while we all know whats going on in Russia and at what human cost this money travels to the pockets of the todays Russias ultra-rich. 50 years down the line we can look straigth to the eyes of the Russian people of that time and we can proudly say - we had nothing to do with it, we did not capitalize on your despair. That's got to be worth something in the long run, won't it?Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-80985672713200621042012-03-20T18:38:14.812+02:002012-03-20T18:38:14.812+02:00When you dance with a 800 pound crazy gorilla, you...When you dance with a 800 pound crazy gorilla, you don't expect it to behave rationally. You are NOT going to wait to change its mind. <br /><br />We'd still be waiting since I don't know, since the times of Ivan the Terrible. Maybe we are. <br /><br />We like to pride ourselves of being patient.<br /><br />Well then. Go and mop the floors in Finland. And patiently explain the ways of the world to your children over Skype.<br /><br />We are such "proud" people, you know. Or smarts are in our ability to stall. To huff and puff.<br /><br />Something I am doing right now. I am Estonian, you know. Lot's of self-hatred, quilt and complexes.<br /><br />Anger.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-87291979339988593312012-03-20T18:27:13.909+02:002012-03-20T18:27:13.909+02:00Well, you don't find German memorabilia in Fin...Well, you don't find German memorabilia in Finland, naturally, but there's a huge body of Finnish literature and memoirs available. Not really that much actual memorabilia as such, I guess because those things still are well remembered, though there must be collectors. And there is absolutely no sense of any war guilt - Stalin is seen as totally the most responsible person for the war.<br /><br />What in my view separates Finland mentally is, once again, a different, and much luckier history: we have gotten also quite good bargains from Moscow and St Petersburg, the first 60yrs of autonomy were amazingly positive time. And even Stalin made a sensible bargain in the end, having grown a healthy respect for the bloodymindedness of the Finns, and by and large that bargain was respected till the end of the Soviet Union.<br /><br />So, there is not this sense of zero sum when it comes to Russia, but once again, this is mutual, and it's hard to see that Estonia has much room for manouver until Russia shows that it willing to compromize. At the moment Estonia is doing quite fine to my mind, and does have quite a bit of commercial dealings eastwards even now. They can be even more profitable and wide ranging, but that would require a changed mentality in Kremlin. And not only in Tallinn.stockholm slenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16909107517362691387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-71733148638564587872012-03-20T18:02:48.684+02:002012-03-20T18:02:48.684+02:00Marko,
Dancing with the Devil is scary, no doubt....Marko,<br /><br />Dancing with the Devil is scary, no doubt. But if we don't, then we'll just end up just polishing the floors for the Finns who DO dance with the Devil.<br /><br />I am referring to the news I read lately, that Estonian subcontracting firms are entering into the Russian marked through Finnish companies.<br /><br />Do you find WWII memorabilia on sale in Finnish supermarkets? Why not? Did they not fight the Russians? <br /><br />You get my drift.<br /><br />My point is, we pay heavy price for what I call, plain stupidity. <br /><br />Why can't we be smart and smarmy like jews? Why we have to "speak the truth"? <br /><br />What IS the truth? <br /><br />Who cares?LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.com