tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post5938249464061537765..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: take that, hans pöögelmann!Giustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-84830028639976403532008-06-02T21:16:00.000+03:002008-06-02T21:16:00.000+03:00Castro was certainly not the romantic of the two, ...Castro was certainly not the romantic of the two, that is for sure.<BR/><BR/>To me, it is hard to swallow that Casto would sell out anyone to the Americans, but my knowledge of Che's later campaigns is spotty.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-58744624508648898932008-06-02T06:30:00.000+03:002008-06-02T06:30:00.000+03:00KMR, dunno if you're being facetious about Che & F...KMR, dunno if you're being facetious about Che & Fidel. But methinks Che was the romantic emigre sucker who got screwed in the end. It was Che who wanted to go the more "purist" ideological route -- quite willing and able to break eggs along the way -- whilst Fidel is often (credibly) pointed to as having set up Furry-Stinky (Che) for his final demise in the Bolivian jungle. Methinks Fidel was in the driver's seat all along. But, I wasn't there (with a candle), so who knows? (Probably some dying Cuban in a track suit.)<BR/><BR/>Also, if, by nature, vacuums must be filled, then doesn't every hole need a G?<BR/><BR/>I feel oddly guilty for not offering up an Esto connection in this off-kilter thread.<BR/><BR/>So, here goes:<BR/><BR/>---> Jüri Liim has received coverage in the Canadian press. Okay, well, sort of: <I>Eesti Elu</I>.<BR/><BR/>---> Kristiina Ojuland, Estonia's one-time foreign minister, has been to Canada, I'm fairly certain. She <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4255937.stm" REL="nofollow">got canned</A> over FM documents going missing a couple years ago.<BR/><BR/>---> And, very recently, Canada's foreign minister <A HREF="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/26/harper.html?ref=rss" REL="nofollow">got nudged</A> over a similar offence, albeit under sexier circumstances.<BR/><BR/>So, there. Anyway, I tried.<BR/><BR/>What do you want me to say?<BR/><BR/>That Che, Trotsky and Savisaar once met in Rakvere to compare notes, and that they ate cheese together?ARKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16714977069646966097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-71470177617410204652008-06-01T21:29:00.000+03:002008-06-01T21:29:00.000+03:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-56651786014198874632008-06-01T21:19:00.000+03:002008-06-01T21:19:00.000+03:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-38142482645480700102008-06-01T07:53:00.000+03:002008-06-01T07:53:00.000+03:00or as the Flynt family members back in Kentucky sp...or as the Flynt family members back in Kentucky spell it, Fleeun.Bäckmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11421369538698912442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-24801335532962084842008-06-01T04:25:00.000+03:002008-06-01T04:25:00.000+03:00Senator McCain and Larry Flynn sorry,Senator McCain and Larry Flynn sorry,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-14237492109368152008-05-31T16:58:00.000+03:002008-05-31T16:58:00.000+03:00They got there because the soviet union was parrot...They got there because the soviet union was parroting the words of their discontent. It wasn't a<BR/>solution and the system( solution) was actually much worse than the system being criticised but a big part of the propaganda machine did push a seeming idealogical almost religious solution to the problem.<BR/>And people were drawn to that like hippies on a pilgrimage. The new age is just as bad for the most part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-27137420317865339332008-05-31T14:42:00.000+03:002008-05-31T14:42:00.000+03:00Che was a Stalinist prick. So much of what went wr...<I>Che was a Stalinist prick. So much of what went wrong after 1959 is due to him.</I><BR/><BR/>He's, mostly, an unknown to those who poster their walls in his image. <BR/><BR/>Guevara was from an upper-class Argentinian family, so his metamorphosis from journal-carrying, motorcycling youth to gun-toting revolutionary is inspirational to academics who dream of social change yet sit around at liberal arts colleges and write books about social change instead.<BR/><BR/>I think this was Che's appeal to the lefty intellectuals, because Che was of their same middle-to-upper class background and he was multilingual and, oh boy, did he look cool. He was like a Stalinist friggin' James Dean. <BR/><BR/>But I just don't get how despising your own political leadership leads some "revolutionaries" to fall in love with foreign leaderships that are just as bad, if not worse. <BR/><BR/>Sure, the Black Panthers (Angela Davis was cited before) had some reasons to despise the city of Oakland when they were formed in 1966. But how they got from "policing their own streets" to meeting with Mao is beyond me. <BR/><BR/>Ditto for Che. How he got from despising Latin American economic policies to touring Red Square is confusing at best. How anyone could read one book -- like Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto -- and intrinsically believe that it was a) all correct and b) needed to be enforced by gun point, is perplexing.<BR/><BR/>Talk about opiate of the masses, hallucinogenic of the masses more like.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-86751152692056073722008-05-31T14:05:00.000+03:002008-05-31T14:05:00.000+03:00Che was a Stalinist prick. So much of what went wr...Che was a Stalinist prick. So much of what went wrong after 1959 is due to him. Otherwise not only would you have a dictatorship with no cult of personality, itself novel, you might even have a revolution without disappeared people and tortured prisoners. Would Castro even have finally gone communist if not for that batistiano bore of a barbudo?<BR/><BR/>Discussion sounds like late night AM skip. Skip being a radio term. <BR/><BR/>ARK, I won't ever used to you calling Giustino "G" given the other, Latvian G. I keep on thinking he's entered the discussion and if this keeps up, he surely will.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-45997460921035105572008-05-31T10:58:00.000+03:002008-05-31T10:58:00.000+03:00Well, I think what you are getting at is how do we...Well, I think what you are getting at is how do we handle the Marxist legacy in the West, Puu.<BR/><BR/>That's a good question. Certainly a lot of my values or ideas have been shaped directly or indirectly by Marxist thought. <BR/><BR/>But here's my question in response: is it really Marxist thought, or is it something else? Marx wasn't an abolitionist. Marx didn't write the Declaration of Independence or the Rights of Man.<BR/><BR/>I would say that ideology is a bit of the problem. The workers movements of the late 19th century weren't formed because Marx wrote some nice theories. They were formed because working conditions <B>stunk</B>. <BR/><BR/><I>I'd like to hear how G went from some affiliation with the student left to canvassing for John McCain. Sounds like quite an interesting ideological journey within the space of a few years.</I><BR/><BR/>I am not canvassing for McSame, though I appreciate the link. I do have, at my heart, very social democratic tendencies. That is, it makes me very angry when people are denied health coverage or when old people spend the end of their lives in poverty. I think that a society that is whole, that invests in its people, eventually reaps the rewards. That's why when brains do travel east, they are headed for the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm.<BR/><BR/>That's just one side of my feelings though. Obviously I am also warm to economically liberal thought. But I dislike the liberals because every time there's a question, they go running for the literature. "Oh, what do the great economic liberal philosophers say about this?!"<BR/><BR/>Plus the liberals steal blatantly social democratic ideas and then parade them around like they were their own. They say Rasmussen is more of a social democrat than the Danish social democratic party. I agree.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-57592456286060502312008-05-31T04:26:00.000+03:002008-05-31T04:26:00.000+03:00If you don't aknowledge these things as a centrist...If you don't aknowledge these things as a centrist and try to extract some validity from them then you concede the whole game of defending socialistic ideas which as Scandinavia and other countries have shown have value, to extremely pro- Moscow people like HH.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-41866159125082917352008-05-31T04:24:00.000+03:002008-05-31T04:24:00.000+03:00Just telling them that the way they figured out to...Just telling them that the way they figured out to stick it to boring old suburban mom and dad is the source of untold human suffering isn't going to work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-31872308665344071562008-05-31T04:21:00.000+03:002008-05-31T04:21:00.000+03:00I'm not tickled but you have to be cogniscent of t...I'm not tickled but you have to be cogniscent of the fact that in American/world culture in general a type of Romantic Internationalism is held in high regard and if you stop addressing that, stop laying a claim on it then you lose a lot of people.People don't read they go to the movies. Fighting communists ( unless you are watching John McCain's movie... and I mean no disrepect to Congressman McCain...I think he's an extremely brave man and he got totally screwed in the 2000 election in Carolina) does not get good press in Hollywood for the most part. Let's just consider all the Che movies that are out. Or enemy at the gates...Bring up communists and you get the fact that the Reichstag burning was fingered as a communist plot as was imprisoning Nelson Mandela and students being attacked in the very fashionable riots in Paris in the 60's.It's all true. If you don't aknowledge these things as a centrist and try to extract some validity from them then you concede the whole game of defending socialistic ideas which as Scandinavia and other countries have shown have value to extremely pro- Moscow people like HH. Who sometimes also happen to be uncouth. You do have a whole generation in the former soviet union shaped by communism and then another whole generation in the western world, especially much reviled liberal arts colleges sympathetic to it though movies and fashion. Just telling them that the way they figured out to stick it to boring old suburban mom and dad isn't going to work. What's going on culturally needs to be acknowledged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-76886395648396346462008-05-31T03:18:00.000+03:002008-05-31T03:18:00.000+03:00This is probably my own pathology surfacing, but I...This is probably my own pathology surfacing, but I usually make a distinction between silly satire (even if crass) and more serious comments. Too bad that one has to step so carefully, or litter a posting with disclaimers, so as to avoid being taken wrongly, or unintentionally sidetracking the discussion.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of distinctions, a quick thought in response to puu:<BR/><BR/>Agreed, there are few absolutes. But there are some absolutes, or at least hard facts. Who was it that said, 'One who loves everything loves nothing'? (Bismarck?) The 'I'm okay, you're okay,' 'on the one hand this, on the other hand that' gets in the way of clear-eyed historical understanding. Kingsley Amis called this tendency (in the British press) "pernicious neutrality."<BR/><BR/>I've always found the continued romanticization of types like Trotsky and Che mystifying. Interesting historical figures worthy of attention, sure. But their bloody records speak for themselves.<BR/><BR/>I wonder if puu or others would be as tickled to pass by a building with a plaque informing passersby, 'Here Eva Braun urinated on Adolf Hitler during one steamy night of passion.'<BR/><BR/>Might want to keep on a theme, puu, rather than bouncing all over the place, from East to West, Trotsky to Bible. Maybe it's a matter of my own intellectual limitations, but it is hard to follow sometimes. Reads less like erudition-at-work than a ganja-fuelled carpet-ride. Otherwise, the off-beaten-path viewpoints are welcome; the sound of too manhy bloggers nodding in unison gets boring at times.<BR/><BR/>As for Hirnu-Hrnx!'s latest dump, I'm afraid that old Latin legal phrase res ipsa loquitur fits. The ad hominem extrapolation from puu's flight to American downfall says more about Hirnu-Hrnx!'s intellectual tack than the US postsecondary education. (One wonders why the flow of students is from east to west, and, with few idiosyncratic exceptions, not the other way around...) Not to mention Hirnu-Hrnx! missing that early-life training in how to be a European gentlemen ('overweight,' 'underfucked', etc.)<BR/><BR/>Oh, well.<BR/><BR/>Giustino's right: the Bolshies and Commies weren't very nice guys.<BR/><BR/>Lenin was a jerk. Stalin was a dick.<BR/><BR/>Che stunk. (Literally: he refused to wash, and was proud of that -- some political statement there. El chancho, indeed.)<BR/><BR/>I'd like to hear how G went from some affiliation with the student left to canvassing for John McCain. Sounds like quite an interesting ideological journey within the space of a few years.<BR/><BR/>Life is weird. The blogosphere is weirder still.<BR/><BR/>Why can't we all just get along?<BR/><BR/>Scratch that last question.ARKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16714977069646966097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-24130336152525639542008-05-31T01:42:00.000+03:002008-05-31T01:42:00.000+03:00See!? What the fuck was THAT supposed to be? Ju...See!? What the fuck was THAT supposed to be? Just right now? What was that? <BR/><BR/>Jheeezh!<BR/><BR/>(Shaking head, folding the laptop in disgust)LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-2192575338551028582008-05-30T20:35:00.000+03:002008-05-30T20:35:00.000+03:00I get the " You make no fucking sense" thing alot....I get the " You make no fucking sense" thing alot. The thing is I just draw on a lot of different sources.<BR/>The thing is the communists were bad, they did make the tsar look like Santa Claus...but they came from a lot of romanticism... just read Turgenev Fathers and Sons for example... Everyone is brainwashed to some extent ( like HH, doing Chinese style lets have capitalism without political freedom and democracy rants)... but you are always going to have art and fashion and art and fashion may be stupid student loan increasing follies but they take the same debates and win the same battles that are often carried out at the point of a gun with no more loss of life than losing face or suffering middle school type humiliation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-17900515361517340432008-05-30T20:22:00.000+03:002008-05-30T20:22:00.000+03:00So the above exchange is basically the example of ...<I>So the above exchange is basically the example of what liberal arts majors produce in America.</I><BR/><BR/>I have no idea what we were talking about. It started off with Communists and then somehow wound up at the Bible.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-16656869291214634322008-05-30T20:07:00.000+03:002008-05-30T20:07:00.000+03:00Fixed the link sorry.Fixed the link sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-58363339993124308522008-05-30T20:06:00.000+03:002008-05-30T20:06:00.000+03:00Anton LaVey<A HREF="http:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_LaVey" REL="nofollow">Anton LaVey</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-61321453137538150422008-05-30T20:02:00.000+03:002008-05-30T20:02:00.000+03:00And your philosophy, HH, is ideologically closest ...And your philosophy, HH, is ideologically closest to this guy's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_LaVeyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-73803430573611655582008-05-30T19:52:00.000+03:002008-05-30T19:52:00.000+03:00So the above exchange is basically the example of ...So the above exchange is basically the example of what liberal arts majors produce in America. The irony is that as at least in the CCCP this kind of artsi-fartsi babble was taught for free while you yanks are up to your eyeballs in debt trying to pay your student loans for worthless trivia. Take that woman in my office. This never-married, over-worked, under-fucked, overweight ball of neuroses and hangups, broken and bankrupt is in her mid 40s and I hear her argue with her student loan officer. She's gonna be clear when she's 60 or something! And she's a securities law attorney. <BR/><BR/>No wonder US dollar is in the dumps. Its all because of this big meaningless babble. American babble. Hot air.<BR/><BR/>But who am I to crtiticize? I get paid basically for the same shit. For blowing hot air. I signed up with the same effin shit. Now bitching and biting the hand that feeds me. Puu is right to hate me. Because she hates herself just as well. <BR/><BR/>Oh, well. Life's ironies. They kill ya, man, they really do.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-37544799299242565482008-05-30T19:35:00.000+03:002008-05-30T19:35:00.000+03:00So? I don't personally own any Che Guevera gear bu...<I>So? I don't personally own any Che Guevera gear but I don't run from the room if I see someone wearing it.</I><BR/><BR/>Neither do I. But I am saying don't be fooled by October Revolution romanticism. Those guys made the Tsar look like Santa Claus.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-40965873599523866412008-05-30T18:03:00.000+03:002008-05-30T18:03:00.000+03:00Also have you read the bible? What is that about i...Also have you read the bible? What is that about if not making the world in ones image. For better or worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-42749461363872888472008-05-30T18:00:00.000+03:002008-05-30T18:00:00.000+03:00There's also been a link between the Trotskyite le...There's also been a link between the Trotskyite left and the fashion industry for sometime... leftist consumer capitalism (the link between the left and neo cons revealed, it's HBO and shoes). So? I don't personally own any Che Guevera gear but I don't run from the room if I see someone wearing it. I like Orwell... What are you going to do...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1204452246288711252008-05-30T16:46:00.000+03:002008-05-30T16:46:00.000+03:00It's a mixed bag and once you start to formulate o...<I>It's a mixed bag and once you start to formulate overarching statements a (about what is bad) you get into trouble.</I><BR/><BR/>My statements are based on my experiences as a human being, not as a devotee to any particular ideology. <BR/><BR/>As I said, I have personal reasons to dislike communists. Most of the communists I have met in person have been disagreeable factionalists who fantasize about remaking the world in their image. <BR/><BR/>That doesn't mean I don't feel the same way about the neoconservatives. But there has been some linkage between the Trotskyite left and the neoconservative right for some time, hasn't there?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.com