tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post393670335558018376..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: milch lait latteGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-41616249948612681382012-01-08T21:57:18.258+02:002012-01-08T21:57:18.258+02:00@Giustino - It is true that there are/were not man...@Giustino - It is true that there are/were not many places in Estonia with a Russian name different from an Estonian one (add Tallin with 1 "n" and Pernov to Yuriev). <br />But I find very funny and confusing those places wirh endonyms and streets in 2 languages: Helsinki/Helsingfors, Bolzano/Bozen, Koper/Capodistria etc.<br />And besides I find terrible that in my smallest country I should divide the writings of my language with Russians, who in 1992 wanted to give a German name to their 2nd largest city: "Sankt-Peterburg".Pille Ploomipuuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15231322849964696127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-84998641702498036592012-01-06T20:49:28.561+02:002012-01-06T20:49:28.561+02:00Thanks for the link, interesting.
I know it's...Thanks for the link, interesting.<br /><br />I know it's a bit off topic here, but it keeps intriguing me how a river can flow both ways for centuries. I would have thought that this was a rather unstable situation and that it would soon become less navigable in one direction.<br /><br />So the Tänassilma used to flow into Lake Viljandi from the Võrtsjärv? I suppose the water flowed both ways from the Võrtsjärv then.Troels-Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16352302240715963641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-72435529273940123762011-12-26T15:25:42.152+02:002011-12-26T15:25:42.152+02:00No, it's not a myth. Check this out - http://w...No, it's not a myth. Check this out - http://www.riverland.ee/550 . Theres plenty online just google stuff and keep in mind that all these little rivers going towards P2rnu today, were once all one river - the Great Emaj8gi. Also, someone mentioned that water from lake Viljandi once ran on both directions, well, it did. As there was a third river, Tänassilma, that carried water from lake V8rtsj2rve. And when V8rtsj2rve flooded it also flooded lake Viljandi and all of the ancient valley was under water for several months of the year. I'm sure I've seen medieval drawings/carvings somewhere having proper ships at bay near the Viljandi Castle. I couldn't find anything online unfortunately. Maybe someone could pop down to the museum curator, at Viljandi Museum, and clarify this and post back here, please?!Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-69393758200406925682011-12-25T01:09:57.567+02:002011-12-25T01:09:57.567+02:00Thinking of officializing Russian without a consid...Thinking of officializing Russian without a consideration for history is indeed near-sighted. And with Russian also as <i>de facto</i> necessary language in so many situations, what is to be gained by it?<br /><br />If there is one space in which Estonian should be the default language, it's Estonia. Just as Russian is in Russia, despite the existence of local minority languages which can even be larger in absolute numbers than the entire Estonian population -- think of Tatar or Mordvin (Erzyan-Moksha).Lingüistahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327147408198046253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-982076163142182092011-12-23T19:20:11.745+02:002011-12-23T19:20:11.745+02:00So it's a myth, then. Interesting.
I still wo...So it's a myth, then. Interesting.<br /><br />I still wonder whether smaller boats or barges would have been able to sail through.Troels-Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16352302240715963641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-54342914004925474452011-12-23T03:34:43.706+02:002011-12-23T03:34:43.706+02:00Ships have keels. Name me one river in Estonia th...Ships have keels. Name me one river in Estonia that would be deeper than say 10 feet or so to carry a seagoing vessel with a keel. It is all fairy tale. There was no Lubeck to Viljandi sailing. Ever.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1581733687727126692011-12-23T03:33:36.453+02:002011-12-23T03:33:36.453+02:00Ships have keels. Name me one river in Estonia th...Ships have keels. Name me one river in Estonia that would be deeper than say 10 feet or so to carry a seagoing vessel with a keel. It is all fairy tale. There was no Lubeck to Viljandi sailing. Ever.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-23534727633411390342011-12-23T03:19:39.567+02:002011-12-23T03:19:39.567+02:00"After I reading the post I have only one phr..."After I reading the post I have only one phraise I want to say: What the fuck?"<br /><br />What ever for? Does it make you horny?Rainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160091690005391250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-26046230930915539622011-12-23T00:30:46.339+02:002011-12-23T00:30:46.339+02:00I also study Russian because it is a beautiful lan...I also study Russian because it is a beautiful language and because Russian culture is fascinating.Temestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614591949410689858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-34151570825521223172011-12-22T23:15:33.194+02:002011-12-22T23:15:33.194+02:00After I reading the post I have only one phraise I...After I reading the post I have only one phraise I want to say: What the fuck?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-40590939415879417032011-12-21T20:37:58.385+02:002011-12-21T20:37:58.385+02:00Actually, that's a thing I've been wonderi...Actually, that's a thing I've been wondering about. Apparently water flowed from Viljandi Lake in both directions in medieval times, so ships could sail all the way through the country. I don't know anything about hydrology, but that must be an unstable situation. Does anyone know how long this was the case? Was it maintained artificially? And how big were the ships? I imagine barges.<br /><br />Just curious.Troels-Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16352302240715963641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-81747943553294629312011-12-21T02:29:43.114+02:002011-12-21T02:29:43.114+02:00Just wanted to add, people wondering why Viljandi ...Just wanted to add, people wondering why Viljandi was so important in the first place? Rivers both coming in and going out of Lake Viljandi could carry ships back then.So you could load your ship in Lubeck, Germany for example and could sail non-stop to Tartu. Also the terrain round the rivers was hardly accesible and one of the few places you could actually capture the ship, and it's booty, was Viljandi. And it was important to Germans to secure the trade routes as Estonians were well known pirates back then.Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-4811943268404805612011-12-21T02:11:55.992+02:002011-12-21T02:11:55.992+02:00@Temetsa
Ancient people of Sakala had their own f...@Temetsa<br /> Ancient people of Sakala had their own fortification on the other side of the lake, you know where the deep bit is in the lake, just across from there, so they used to stare each other as in |Mexican stand-off. The Germans built their one in even grander style, the ruins of which can still be seen today, to show off their alledged dominance and as far as I know they both co-existed for some time. So next time in Viljandi Ordulinnus, just look at the forest across the lake, where the Estonian fortification was, and think back how intimidating it all must have looked like! History is amazing, isn't it?:)Markohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17501324932136870126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-22961973586208619122011-12-20T23:00:20.436+02:002011-12-20T23:00:20.436+02:00It's indeed an interesting case with those Ger...<em>It's indeed an interesting case with those German-speaking Estonians not identifying as German Balts. Are there other examples of this group?</em><br /><br />People have different identities. You can be Jewish and Russian speaking and an Estonian.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-68585009414148507792011-12-20T18:30:08.377+02:002011-12-20T18:30:08.377+02:00"Viljandi had a castle and was a commercial c..."Viljandi had a castle and was a commercial center for its surrounding areas."<br /><br />Wasn't this castle built by the Sword Brethren? Before there was a hill-fort on the same site.Temestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614591949410689858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-72707169230019793042011-12-20T00:19:40.859+02:002011-12-20T00:19:40.859+02:00Yet, if the Russians were to apply for cultural au...Yet, if the Russians were to apply for cultural autonomy, I suppose the state would have to do that - ?<br /><br />It's indeed an interesting case with those German-speaking Estonians not identifying as German Balts. Are there other examples of this group?Troels-Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16352302240715963641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-26741425348487486482011-12-19T22:07:30.188+02:002011-12-19T22:07:30.188+02:00I was of the impression that the law on cultural m...<i>I was of the impression that the law on cultural minorities in referring to Russians as an official minority in the State of Estonia was making reference to Peipsi järv coast old-believers not to the children of Soviet migrants, most of whom weren't Russian but from non-Russian SSRs.<br /><br />Any experts on law like to clarify this point that Justin has raised? (Purely for interest of course. I agree that Russian-speakers are catered for by the state in terms of linguistic and cultural provision. Case in point, just got a bilingual Estonian-Russian information leaflet delivered in my door today about the census.)</i><br /><br />The law was authored in 1925 by a social democratic government. Back then, Estonia's minority groups were rather centralized, they had inhabited the same areas for a long time, were linked through family and religious connections, and the autonomy law basically gave them the rights to oversee and administer their own cultural affairs.<br /><br />It was reinstated in 1993 as part of the restoration of the prewar republic. Again, smaller, centralized minorities -- Estonian Swedes, Ingrian Finns -- have been able to take advantage of the law. But for Russians it is a real problem because there are so many of them, about 300,000, meaning that technically, the could be 100 different Russian groups seeking autonomy. The Ministry of Population Affairs was wrestling with this issue before SDE was sacked in 2009 and the post unfilled. <br /><br />That being said, Russian is a de facto "official" language of the Estonian state, as is English it seems, Russian for the locals, English for everyone else. Estonian, though, is the only language that has special constitutional protection, meaning it is the job of the state to protect the Estonian language. I don't think it should be the job of the Estonian state to protect the Russian language.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-57813055993346817462011-12-19T18:01:21.325+02:002011-12-19T18:01:21.325+02:00I was of the impression that the law on cultural m...<i>I was of the impression that the law on cultural minorities in referring to Russians as an official minority in the State of Estonia was making reference to Peipsi järv coast old-believers not to the children of Soviet migrants</i><br /><br />Well, the law says nothing about the birthplace, if that's what you meant. It says that "the right for cultural self-government" (really awkward term if you ask me) "can be exercised by persons originating from German, Russian, Swedish and Jewish minorities and from the minorities that number over 3000 persons."plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-89250501203557801892011-12-19T17:51:21.048+02:002011-12-19T17:51:21.048+02:00There weren't real cities before that.
Viljan...<i>There weren't real cities before that.</i><br /><br />Viljandi had a castle and was a commercial center for its surrounding areas. Maybe it doesn't sound too awesome today, but in the beginning of the 13th century and compared to recently established Riga? Probably quite decent.plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-11735462437193290472011-12-19T11:52:30.424+02:002011-12-19T11:52:30.424+02:00It depends where you live. Russian is handy in Tal...<i>It depends where you live. Russian is handy in Tallinn, sure. But a lot of people speak English in Tallinn too. If they smell foreignness, they'll switch to English. It's annoying</i><br /><br />In my personal experience, if they see you struggling with the Estonian, they switch to Russian. Which is indeed annoying, since I don't understand a word of it. <br />And even when you speak English, they still try to switch to Russian...this is why I do my best to get by in Estonian.<br />Of course, a lot of Tallinners speak English, I'm not denying that. I guess I'm just unlucky enough not to cross paths with them much.Spawniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01591255810208162691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-17850259929628441142011-12-19T11:50:30.281+02:002011-12-19T11:50:30.281+02:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.Spawniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01591255810208162691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-58856752079578821112011-12-18T22:29:02.830+02:002011-12-18T22:29:02.830+02:00@ Troels-Peter: The German family has an odd linea...@ Troels-Peter: The German family has an odd lineage. From what I understand, they are "Germanized" Estonian exiles who repatriated in '91. They operate a farm in the countryside, a little island of German-speaking farmers surrounded by Estonians. I did meet a Baltic German lady once who went on and on about what losers Estonians are and how the sun shone from Mannerheim's arse.<br /><br />@ Temesta: It depends where you live. Russian is handy in Tallinn, sure. But a lot of people speak English in Tallinn too. If they smell foreignness, they'll switch to English. It's annoying<br /><br />In general, I just got a letter from the Estonian Statistical Office in three languages: Estonian, Russian, and English.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-32741906445767374902011-12-16T12:55:32.628+02:002011-12-16T12:55:32.628+02:00In February I will move to Estonia. I have been st...In February I will move to Estonia. I have been studying Estonian for two years now. In September I started studying Russian. I think it could be useful.Temestahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14614591949410689858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-83679776124337260482011-12-16T10:50:24.946+02:002011-12-16T10:50:24.946+02:00No it isn't. English and French are the everyd...No it isn't. English and French are the everyday working languages with German to a minor extent. As the EU has expanded the use of English has also expanded. French used to be the de facto working language but now it is English.<br /><br />The EU has 23 de jure working languages but in reality English is <i>the</i> working language.<br /><br />It is the legislation that must be translated and EU bodies must respond to a correspondance in the same langauge if it's in one of those 23. Everyday documents aren't translated.Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12481927677399385515noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-5375836733984496782011-12-16T02:05:23.665+02:002011-12-16T02:05:23.665+02:00Is every document in Brussels really translated in...Is every document in Brussels really translated into every EU member language? <br /><br /><br />I mean really?<br /><br />Wow! <br /><br />No wonder this Tower of Babel is starting to crumble. It is unsustainable. It is actually pretty biblical. It will crumble.<br /><br />:-)LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.com