tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post2649453462747537825..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: ametliku ajaluguGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-72137108133415630112007-12-14T20:31:00.000+02:002007-12-14T20:31:00.000+02:00Bureshin and economist?The qualification of a head...Bureshin and economist?<BR/>The qualification of a head of Plaanikomitee (Gosplan) for me seems not enough.<BR/>And credibility is really low.Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-61586024177150552362007-12-14T15:09:00.000+02:002007-12-14T15:09:00.000+02:00Vahtre is rather a writer than a historian.Vahtre is rather a writer than a historian.plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-79305030961346891282007-12-14T10:15:00.000+02:002007-12-14T10:15:00.000+02:00Better Laar than, say, Küllo Arjakas. The only oth...Better Laar than, say, Küllo Arjakas. <BR/><BR/>The only other historian I can think of off the top of my head is Lauri Vahtre. <BR/><BR/>But wait a second -- he's a politician, too.<BR/><BR/>Hell, Savisaar should probably write the history. First of all, he's not a historian -- he's an economist, and they're more objective. <BR/><BR/>The big reason is that he has the best tape collections -- including the original magnetic media. He probably even recorded his conversations with Moscow. <BR/><BR/>Invaluable...Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-47868119602235388892007-12-14T05:59:00.000+02:002007-12-14T05:59:00.000+02:00PS, I think the citizen-politician is a wonderfull...PS, I think the citizen-politician is a wonderfully evocative concept. One day passing the nation's law, then next day moon-lighting as a local mayor, historian or maintenance man to suppliment their meagre parliamentary incomes. How grass roots is that!martintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-9158577495946023032007-12-14T00:56:00.000+02:002007-12-14T00:56:00.000+02:00Meri famously had a screw driver in his pocket to ...Meri famously had a screw driver in his pocket to do the odd maintenance job around the Presidential office. Laar was a trained historian before he became a politician, just because he became a PM, doesn't mean he should give it up entirely. Obviously people would treat his writings about his contemporary political colleagues with a grain of salt, But I don't think him being a former PM would devalue his work on Estonia's WWII history.martintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-60296687001366794282007-12-14T00:38:00.000+02:002007-12-14T00:38:00.000+02:00I bet every chapter of Reagan's history book would...I bet every chapter of Reagan's history book would begin with, "Nancy and I ..."Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-60137563171793424592007-12-14T00:33:00.000+02:002007-12-14T00:33:00.000+02:00Well, with over 300 million Americans, you certain...Well, with over 300 million Americans, you certain don't want or need Ronald Reagan to write your elementary school history books. With less than a million native speakers, Estonians have to multitask by necessity. <BR/><BR/>Estonians have to both walk and chew gum at the same time, something that Reagan reportedly couldn't do. :-)martintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-9948679325540749592007-12-13T23:30:00.000+02:002007-12-13T23:30:00.000+02:00The USA certainly does have an "official" history....<I>The USA certainly does have an "official" history.</I><BR/><BR/>Ronald Reagan didn't author any of my elementary school history books (thank God). I am sure he would have presented, say, Jimmy Carter in a balanced way.<BR/><BR/>But I digress. The issue here isn't whether or not people should write books. It's what we think of those books based on who writes them. <BR/><BR/>If a former prime minister writes a history book about Estonia starting with the ice age, right up to his government's crucial early 1990s reforms -- what are we to make of this "history book."<BR/><BR/>Is it a real history book that you use in schools, or is it more equivalent to one of those many books you find on the shelves in the US authored by Barack Obama or Ted Kennedy?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-79243669541689846012007-12-13T23:10:00.000+02:002007-12-13T23:10:00.000+02:00Giustino said... I don't think states have an offi...<I>Giustino said... <BR/>I don't think states have an official history. They have positions that can change with time. <BR/><BR/>The United States interpretation of its involvement in the Baltic States changed from the time of the Potsdam Conference to 1992, that's for sure.</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>Given that there are two formal "ex-officio" members of the board of governors of the Smithsonian Institute, the Vice President of the USA being one of them, and three members from the US Senate and three from the House of Representatives as well, the USA certainly does have an "official" history.<BR/>http://www.si.edu/about/regents/members.htmmartintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-85605806615339338082007-12-13T23:09:00.000+02:002007-12-13T23:09:00.000+02:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.martintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-12549718655960991662007-12-13T23:06:00.000+02:002007-12-13T23:06:00.000+02:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.martintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-44778393957694683442007-12-13T10:47:00.000+02:002007-12-13T10:47:00.000+02:00Since Henry of Livonia, foreigners have been writi...<I>Since Henry of Livonia, foreigners have been writing Estonia's history, so I don't see anything wrong with Estonians like Laar wanting to redress the balance.</I><BR/><BR/>Me neither.<BR/><BR/><I>Recall that Estonia's Jeffersons were shipped off to Siberia. So I see no problem with them building up the ediface of "official" Estonian history.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think states have an official history. They have positions that can change with time. <BR/><BR/>The United States interpretation of its involvement in the Baltic States changed from the time of the Potsdam Conference to 1992, that's for sure.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-47505031249510935112007-12-13T10:36:00.000+02:002007-12-13T10:36:00.000+02:00Some - including Jaan Kross - have it that the aut...Some - including Jaan Kross - have it that the author of Balthasar Ruessow´s «Chronica der Provintz Lyfflandt» was everything else but no foreigner.<BR/><BR/>And there is no certainty that Henry of Livonia was born in Germany, he went (back?) to Riga as a child and spent most of his life-time in Livonia. He could well have been the child of autochthonous parents educated in Germany (a parallel to B. Ruessow).<BR/><BR/>It happened all the time.Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11570222255588113253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-17570079549973053422007-12-13T08:08:00.000+02:002007-12-13T08:08:00.000+02:00All countries have [and need] their Thomas Jeffers...<I>All countries have [and need] their Thomas Jeffersons. They need their critical historians too.</I><BR/><BR/>Since Henry of Livonia, foreigners have been writing Estonia's history, so I don't see anything wrong with Estonians like Laar wanting to redress the balance.<BR/><BR/>Recall that Estonia's Jeffersons were shipped off to Siberia. So I see no problem with them building up the ediface of "official" Estonian history.martintghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16840407742014556024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-25169511858467246002007-12-12T17:30:00.000+02:002007-12-12T17:30:00.000+02:00And everyone is still alive. (Even Savisaar, I thi...<I>And everyone is still alive. (Even Savisaar, I think.)</I><BR/><BR/>Savisaar does it too. His books similarly cover recent history. The exception is that Savisaar's books don't cover the Northern Crusades ...<BR/><BR/>Ultimately, I don't think Laar is in the wrong. It is the readers who should be careful to remember that just because Laar is a politician and has been prime minister, doesn't make his version of history any more "official" than Anatol Lieven's. <BR/><BR/>There should be no such thing as an "official history."Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-30874583095572477522007-12-12T16:56:00.000+02:002007-12-12T16:56:00.000+02:00From a German point of view one might envy Estonia...From a German point of view one might envy Estonia for "intellectual" politicians like Mart Laar, Hendrik Thomas Ilves and first and foremost Lennart Meri ... <BR/><BR/>So I cannot see any harm in an "intellectual-turned-politician`s" attempt to deliver his version of the affairs he witnessed and more or less co-designed when in office. Rather I would welcome them as a considerable contribution to the discussion. One might even argue such contributions are sort of compulsory to draw the attention of those who think otherwise.<BR/><BR/>The intellectual training of Helmut Kohl, Gerhard Schröder and the like is not noticeable. Some will have it, that it is either non-existent or well-hidden since the voter / the plebs does not love anybody obviously intelluctually their superior. So the establishment of visions of history is all too often left to the mass-media, les terribles simplificateurs ...<BR/><BR/>As an American, Justin, you might know what I am hinting at.<BR/><BR/>One former German Bundespräsident, Ernst-Richard v. Weizsäcker, sort of turned from politician to intellectual (once appointed Bundespräsident, he was above the melée and the need for camouflage and opportunism was felt no more) once coined the phrase: referring to general training and intellectual prowess a (German) politician is but a limited generalist, though he is a highly competent specialist in the trade to fight political foes AND friends alike.<BR/><BR/>This is due to the role of the political parties in Germany, who control the access to many jobs and offices also outside the political circus. To pursue a career outside private enterprises you need to obtain your "smelling of this or that (political) stable". In order to do so you have to sacrifice lots and lots of your time serving your political party, building your clique and your band of claqueurs. The earlier you join the party´s ranks and get into close contact with the manure, the better for your career prospects. Intellectuals proper (and entrepreneurs) consider that a waste of time and a limiting of their possibilities. So we suffer from a lack of intellectuals and simulteneously from a plethora of "party-soldiers" and other apparatschiks in politics and political discussions. <BR/><BR/>By the way, Angela Merkel might be considered an exception to the rule here as in other places. Grown-up in the GDR, the Sovietized part of Germany before 1989, she joined the political circus quite late and has tricked many old-school party politicians since. To your notice: after the recent meeting with Poland´s Donald Tusk you could hear in the news that the much-discussed pipeline is to be reconsidered ...<BR/><BR/>Let´s hope for the best. God bless Estonia.Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11570222255588113253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-91399399228895891112007-12-12T16:33:00.000+02:002007-12-12T16:33:00.000+02:00I think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to write...I think it's a perfectly legitimate thing to write. All histories, ultimately, are only a point of view.<BR/><BR/>And one of the best histories of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia was written by Trotsky, not a minor politician.Ly Kessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05934641232058610364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-86519442404595766772007-12-12T15:46:00.000+02:002007-12-12T15:46:00.000+02:00I don't think Laar needs to recuse himself or have...I don't think Laar needs to recuse himself or have Anatol Lieven or someone step in and write the chapters on the independence era just because Laar was personally involved in some of the events. (Though Laar does not write as well as Jefferson, and he should not try to write in English.)<BR/><BR/>It's not like Laar covers Savisaar's wiretap scandal (which would be like Jefferson writing about Burr-Hamilton?) or his own, Laar administration. I don't have the book, so I don't remember exactly.<BR/><BR/>There is a significant deal of agreement about the events of 20years ago... about who wanted Estonia to take what way...<BR/><BR/>And everyone is still alive. (Even Savisaar, I think.) So there's a kind of peer-review built in for now where any B.S. gets called.<BR/> <BR/>It's not like in the US, 200 years after the fact, where the Right can twist and spin things, and make the claim and get away with it that the Deist founding fathers wanted a "Christian nation", for example. Or any number of things.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.com