tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post116922462165108540..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: There is Hope for Estonian-Russian RelationsGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169568740166560812007-01-23T18:12:00.000+02:002007-01-23T18:12:00.000+02:00The only thing the Estonian state could do to plac...<I>The only thing the Estonian state could do to placate Russian propaganda attacks, is to ask them to come and take control.</I><BR/><BR/>I disagree. I look to the Finnish example, and the Finns are basically two-faced weasels that know how to flatter the Russians with modesty and then go ahead to do what's best for Finland anyway.<BR/><BR/>That's what I am talking about. I don't hear too many Finnish politicians talking about compensation for Karelia, and it was THEY who had to pay war reparations after WWII, but they remained independent and they are out of the eye of Moscow's propaganda war.<BR/><BR/>And where are they anyway? It's Marko Mihkelson who's at PACE setting what Russia considers an "anti-Russian" agenda. And look at his blog - it's all about Russia. There's limited Estonia content, and yet he's a politician from Estonia.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, where's Tuomioja? Finland is seen as totally unthreatening, but tiny Estonia gets paint thrown on its embassy? Give me a break!<BR/><BR/>The WAY to keeping the Russians out right now is not to continue to find ways to needle them and piss them off. It is to invest heavily in the Estonian cultural infrastructure.<BR/><BR/>Estonia should be a factory of Estonian culture. There should be greater investments into supporting Estonian musicians, writers, artists, filmmakers et cetera. Estonia is already there to some extent, but it needs to be MORE there. Estonian culture should be as dense and recognizable as Russian culture is.<BR/><BR/>You should be able to get off the bridge in Narva and say, "Holy shit! I am in a very different country."<BR/><BR/>And part of that means reclaiming culture. I'm tired of hearing about how "this is Finnish" and "this is Swedish" and "this is Russian." Just take it all and make it all yours. Do you really think the Finns invented the Scandinavian cross or St. Lucia's Day? No. The countries that survive best are the ones that STEAL.<BR/><BR/>Estonia is on the brink of being as solid as Finland. It needs to pass the 20 year mark, 2011, in peace and keep going. The longer it perpetuates itself, the more impossible it will be to disrupt its center of control. There already is a center of control that the Soviets couldn't get rid of. It can, and must, be stronger.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169559837019461852007-01-23T15:43:00.000+02:002007-01-23T15:43:00.000+02:00I appreciate you hopeful insights into Russian-Est...I appreciate you hopeful insights into Russian-Estonian relations, but the comparison with the historical relationship between the US and Britain seems to be from another planet. I am trying to think of some historical parallel but just cannot find any. <BR/><BR/>As for those unfortunate Estonian-Russian relations... This remark about pushy people and them going away is also a lot of wishful thinking, I'm afraid. It really doesn't matter what how you behave towards Russia. Russia is not just some pushy person, Russia is a full-blown bully and bullying is an honourable tradition in Russian history and culture. It will take a miracle for that to change. There is a nice song from the end of the 80s which expresses an Estonian dream - to somehow disconnect Estonia from the continent and push it free to float out of the Baltic sea, somewhere far far away from Russia:). This reflects a sad truth: Estonians have been under Russia since the very beginning of the 18th century and were bullied by Russian armies already before. And right now we can do anything we want - be tolerant and carefree or militant and protective. The point is - we cannot change Russia and Russia will always be stronger than us, and will always be a bully. <BR/><BR/>Hmmm... am getting really depressed writing this, but this seems to me to be the sad truth. The only thing the Estonian state could do to placate Russian propaganda attacks, is to ask them to come and take control.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169403869675163512007-01-21T20:24:00.000+02:002007-01-21T20:24:00.000+02:00* obstruct* obstructAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169403738548721592007-01-21T20:22:00.000+02:002007-01-21T20:22:00.000+02:00I think Russia needs this border treaty more than ...I think Russia needs this border treaty more than Estonia does. They want visa freedom with the EU but they won't get it if they have a border dispute with a member state. Russia delayed the treaty because they thought it would obstract Estonia's accession to the EU and NATO. Estonia was willing to sign the treaty in the 90's. Of course the preamble wasn't necessary but Estonians can't resist the pleasure of ticking off Russia every once in a while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169392786248458122007-01-21T17:19:00.000+02:002007-01-21T17:19:00.000+02:00Really? So you are suggesting that Estonia should ...<I>Really? So you are suggesting that Estonia should tell Russia what it wants to hear, that Estonia was not occupied and voluntarily joined the Soviet Union?</I><BR/><BR/>NO. But you keep saying it to them, and they keep not listening. Maybe it's better to bring it up next in '08, when they get a new president. Putin is a lost cause.<BR/><BR/><I>If you haven't noticed, Estonia is a parliamentary democracy governed by the rule of law, so I don't think Estonia ought to compromise this in order to pander the Kremlin's obvious lack of understanding of how parliamentary democracies, or the rule of law, works.</I><BR/><BR/>I fully understand the preamble situation. But Ilves also said it wasn't necessary. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. There still isn't any border treaty. If there was one, then we wouldn't have to talk about it anymore - and what fun would that be?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169369980264827142007-01-21T10:59:00.000+02:002007-01-21T10:59:00.000+02:00Dealing with Russia is like dealing with all pushy...<I><BR/>Dealing with Russia is like dealing with all pushy people, you tell them what they want to hear, and they usually go away. You then proceed to continue doing what you were doing. <BR/></I><BR/>Really? So you are suggesting that Estonia should tell Russia what it wants to hear, that Estonia was not occupied and voluntarily joined the Soviet Union?<BR/><I><BR/>Take the preamble to the border treaty. It was unnecessary because the Estonian government already passed the documents it referenced. If Estonia had just passed the document as it was, they might have had a border agreement in place by today and little would have changed.<BR/></I><BR/>It wasn't a preamble to the border treaty, but a preamble to the ratification law, which has no legal force in international law. It's aim was to place the new border treaty within it's proper legal context within Estonian law. Addtionally, this preamble was necessary if the border treaty was to gain the required number of votes within the riigikogu to be passed. If you haven't noticed, Estonia is a parliamentary democracy governed by the rule of law, so I don't think Estonia ought to compromise this in order to pander the Kremlin's obvious lack of understanding of how parliamentary democracies, or the rule of law, works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169369928643699022007-01-21T10:58:00.000+02:002007-01-21T10:58:00.000+02:00Dealing with Russia is like dealing with all pushy...<I><BR/>Dealing with Russia is like dealing with all pushy people, you tell them what they want to hear, and they usually go away. You then proceed to continue doing what you were doing. <BR/></I><BR/>Really? So you are suggesting that Estonia should tell Russia what it wants to hear, that Estonia was not occupied and voluntarily joined the Soviet Union?<BR/><I><BR/>Take the preamble to the border treaty. It was unnecessary because the Estonian government already passed the documents it referenced. If Estonia had just passed the document as it was, they might have had a border agreement in place by today and little would have changed.<BR/></I><BR/>It wasn't a preamble to the border treaty, but a preamble to the ratification law, which has no legal force in international law. It's aim was to place the new border treaty within it's proper legal context within Estonian law. Addtionally, this preamble was necessary if the border treaty was to gain the required number of votes within the riigikogu to be passed. If you haven't noticed, Estonia is a parliamentary democracy governed by the rule of law, so I don't think Estonia ought to compromise this in order to pander the Kremlin's obvious lack of understanding of how parliamentary democracies, or the rule of law, works.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169353957685342212007-01-21T06:32:00.000+02:002007-01-21T06:32:00.000+02:00But then again, Russia's meddling in Estonia's dom...<I>But then again, Russia's meddling in Estonia's domestic affairs is unacceptable. Our sovereignty is at stake.</I><BR/><BR/>Dealing with Russia is like dealing with all pushy people, you tell them what they want to hear, and they usually go away. You then proceed to continue doing what you were doing. <BR/><BR/>Take the preamble to the border treaty. It was unnecessary because the Estonian government already passed the documents it referenced. If Estonia had just passed the document as it was, they might have had a border agreement in place by today and little would have changed.<BR/><BR/>I am not sure if continuing to remind Russia of its actions is the best course. The ultimate goal would be for Russians to just get used to the idea that Estonia is a foreign country. <BR/><BR/>It's only been 16 years, about a generation. One more generation and Estonia as an independent country will be an "it's always been like that" thing, just as we all look at Norway and it's hard for us to imagine Norwegians and Swedes at each other's throats over Norsk independence.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169311932978135532007-01-20T18:52:00.000+02:002007-01-20T18:52:00.000+02:00I hope you are right, cause I'm sick an tired of t...I hope you are right, cause I'm sick an tired of these never-ending quarrels between Estonia and Russia. <BR/>The Bronze Soldier, for example, is it really <EM>that</EM> important? IMO we could do the noble thing and leave it alone, let those Soviet vets have their fun every now and then. It's not like this monument is a security threat or something<BR/><BR/>But then again, Russia's meddling in Estonia's domestic affairs is unacceptable. Our sovereignty is at stake.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169304775983340742007-01-20T16:52:00.000+02:002007-01-20T16:52:00.000+02:00So Laar and Ansip are archaeologists, and Klenksi ...So Laar and Ansip are archaeologists, and Klenksi is a bedouin. I can imagine them in those costumes!Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1169281151046757602007-01-20T10:19:00.000+02:002007-01-20T10:19:00.000+02:00http://www.epl.ee/arvamus/370722A hilarious piece ...http://www.epl.ee/arvamus/370722<BR/><BR/>A hilarious piece by writer Andrus Kivirähk about the curse of the BS. In Estonian only, sorry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com