tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post7252263798508003524..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: cto?Giustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger124125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-79005633585270686902008-03-30T15:09:00.000+02:002008-03-30T15:09:00.000+02:00Egan: Incidentally, the only one of the party lea...Egan: <I> Incidentally, the only one of the party leaders who is completel comfortable in Swedish (except for Stefan Wallin, the Swedish People's Party leader) is Timo Sioni, the aggressively Fennoman leader of the True Finns. It's hilarious to watch him tear strips of Wallin in the election debate (4 are in Finnish and 1 in Swedish, I think), while the others mangle their sentences and slip Finnish words in. </I><BR/>I don't know where you got that impression from. Soini's Swedish is not that great at all. It only looks better when he sits next to people like Vanhanen and Katainen who simply shouldn't even try to speak Swedish, as they can't (although I suppose on the other hand, it's nice they try). Soini does make lots of mistakes and can't express himself that well, but he seems to think he can (you can't accuse him of being shy) so is heard speaking it more (so perhaps if you don't speak Swedish, you'd think that he was good).<BR/>Tarja Cronberg (green leader) is currently the best Finnish-speaking party leader in Swedish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-6733821605539804412008-03-03T23:11:00.000+02:002008-03-03T23:11:00.000+02:00"A woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on hi..."A woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hinder legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."<BR/><BR/>I was just reacting to that. Sorry. I hate that Johnson<BR/>quote. I also hate lots of British conservatives that go <BR/>on about how pampered Virginia Wolf was but quote <BR/>Romantic poets. Anyway it's my private beef and I probably shouldn't be throwing it around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-69407422068439369762008-03-02T16:39:00.000+02:002008-03-02T16:39:00.000+02:00to puuWhah? (Mouth agape)to puu<BR/><BR/>Whah? (Mouth agape)LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-39896447232261694342008-03-02T11:49:00.000+02:002008-03-02T11:49:00.000+02:00Sorry. I just hate that quote. Just because the m...Sorry. I just hate that quote. Just because the man wrote the dictionary doesn't make him a universal authority. Maybe if he spent less time with Boswell it would be different.Not that there were ever any Johnson Boswell batman robin implications.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-9160792492064555472008-03-02T11:22:00.000+02:002008-03-02T11:22:00.000+02:00A man preaching is often the verbal equivalent of ...A man preaching is often the verbal equivalent of masturbation. Hence the fascination with women, preachers or otherwise often comes from the fact that they aren't getting any.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-66711417853682190552008-03-02T05:23:00.000+02:002008-03-02T05:23:00.000+02:00n-lane,I fear you came into the thread late, and w...n-lane,<BR/>I fear you came into the thread late, and want a rehash...<BR/><BR/>It's a very long thread, and if you take it from the top, you'll find I've been quite specific, and, I fear, redundant, on those very points. I'm too tired at the moment to chew my cabbage yet a third time. ;)<BR/><BR/> A blog is rather like a newspaper whose press run never stops. <BR/><BR/><I>To read a newspaper for the first time is like coming into a film that has been on for an hour. Newspapers are like serials. To understand them you have to take knowledge to them; the knowledge that serves best is the knowledge provided by the newspaper itself.<BR/><BR/>-V. S. Naipaul, The Enigma of Arrival, "The Journey" (1987).<BR/></I>Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-24103874186156994072008-03-01T23:30:00.000+02:002008-03-01T23:30:00.000+02:00If Ilves did indeed evince such a visceral reactio...<I>If Ilves did indeed evince such a visceral reaction,</I> (Karla)<BR/><BR/>Do you think this interview is a fake?<BR/><BR/><I> perhaps it should have remained 'off the record.'</I> (Karla)<BR/><BR/>It sounds like you are blaming BBC for doing its job and keeping facts on the record.<BR/>Wouldn't it be more honest to say that perhaps Ilves shouldn't have evinced such a 'visceral reaction' in an interview with a BBC correspondent?n-lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03410971697891673149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-63374062141222844022008-03-01T18:12:00.000+02:002008-03-01T18:12:00.000+02:00So I think the question is why Ilves had to speak ...<I> So I think the question is why Ilves had to speak about "giving in" and "accepting fifty years of brutalisation" instead of just giving a more "down-to-earth" answer, like: "I don't speak Russian because I've never learned it". </I><BR/><BR/>If Ilves did indeed evince such a visceral reaction, perhaps it should have remained 'off the record.' <BR/><BR/>Human reactions are often based on even more tenuous emotional connections than Ilves' presumably direct one to the officially imposed language of a conquering foreign power. Remember the dust-storm of protest raised a few years ago when Daniel Barenboim first proposed conducting an all-Wagner program in Israel? <BR/><BR/>A famously multilingual scholar (of <I>Anglo-Canadian</I> extraction, with no political or historical baggage) once drew a lot of flak at a scholarly confab simply by his spontaneous, gut-level reaction when asked why he hadn't learned Russian. "Funny alphabet. Too damn many sibiliants. Can't be bothered."Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-69757044410483313602008-03-01T17:54:00.000+02:002008-03-01T17:54:00.000+02:00erueestlane said... "Pooh. That was now totally o...<I>erueestlane said...<BR/> "Pooh. That was now totally off the topic. Sorry. I am bored" </I><BR/> <BR/> Off-topic perhaps, but immensely clever, witty and entertaining. LOL!Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-59345354266327757622008-03-01T17:49:00.000+02:002008-03-01T17:49:00.000+02:00I think that if you know a language well, then you...<I>I think that if you know a language well, then you should speak it if you have to in order to communicate. If you don't then don't.</I><BR/><BR/>Very true. Rather analogous to legendary lexicographer Dr Sam Johnson's remark upon seeing a woman preaching in a marketplace in the North of England:<BR/> <BR/> <I>"A woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hinder legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all." </I><BR/><BR/>(Sexist element to be pardoned, as it was 1763, and Johnson was in any event more disturbed by the overall inappropriateness of language and setting.)<BR/><BR/>I introduce analogies only because it is well to remember that Estonia's multilingual situation is far from unique and the key is adaptability. Francophone Canadians are underwhelmed by the attempts of, say, an Aubrey Forsythe-Smythe from British Columbia subjecting them to a pharase or two of fractured French. I've heard American Latinos' reaction to Bush's infrequent but memorable forays into Spanish. (Now there's a pol who got away with not even knowing ONE official language!)<BR/><BR/>Canada's last Governor-General (acting in loco HMQ as head of state) was Adrienne Clarkson (of Hakka stock, born Ńg Pên-kî Poi, in Hong Kong). There are over one million Chinese-Canadians. To my knowledge, Her Excellency never addressed them in Cantonese nor in Hakka. She limited herself to her very elegant French (acquired at the Sorbonne) and English. Presumed message, if any, to Sino-Canucks: <I>REARN ENGRISH!</I> There was never any discussion about this issue that I can recall.<BR/><BR/>Canada's present GG is Michaëlle Jean, born in Haiti. Black, beautiful and talented. She pretty much sticks to French and English at home. But when she does use her Italian, Spanish or Poruguese, the response is as favorable as might be expected. Especially from Canada's 1.3 million Italians, since Michaëlle Jean is an alumna of the universities of Florence, Perugia and Milan and used to teach Italian Studies at the U of Montreal. <BR/><BR/>You use what you got, and thinking people appreciate it. As for anyone who still harps on Ilves' birth abroad, I might note that the entire Canadian vice-regal family is foreign-born: HE Michaëlle Jean in Haiti, and her husband, filmmaker Jean-Daniel Lafond, was born in France. Their adopted daughter Marie-Éden was born in Haiti.<BR/><BR/>Of Toronto's five million inhabitants, 75% are immigrants or children of immigrants. They speak English. Those unwilling or unable to learn English function as best they can within ethnic ghettos.<BR/><BR/><I>I have to say that Ilves is the president. Shouldn't people be speaking to him in his language? </I><BR/><BR/>Quite right. This is pretty much the unwritten rule around the world. And it works.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-41582655113561004582008-03-01T16:37:00.000+02:002008-03-01T16:37:00.000+02:00I think that if you know a language well, then you...<I>I think that if you know a language well, then you should speak it if you have to in order to communicate. If you don't then don't.</I> (Giustino)<BR/><BR/>I agree. So I think the question is why Ilves had to speak about "giving in" and "accepting fifty years of brutalisation" instead of just giving a more "down-to-earth" answer, like: "I don't speak Russian because I've never learned it".n-lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03410971697891673149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-4898842528509901332008-03-01T16:05:00.000+02:002008-03-01T16:05:00.000+02:00But they didn't. Now I think Estonian politicians,...<I>But they didn't. Now I think Estonian politicians, who give official interviews in Russian, are in a dilemma.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that if you know a language well, then you should speak it if you have to in order to communicate. If you don't then don't. Rein Lang speaks Finnish fluently. Finns have a cultural autonomy, they are the fourth largest minority. If Rein Lang speaks Finnish, I have no qualms with that.<BR/><BR/>I have to say that Ilves <I>is</I> the president. Shouldn't people be speaking to him in <I>his</I> language?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-39089876960707621922008-03-01T15:47:00.000+02:002008-03-01T15:47:00.000+02:00One of my favorite books, "Clockwork Orange" loses...One of my favorite books, "Clockwork Orange" loses an important and funny dimension, if one does not know russian. <BR/><BR/>Using the style, I can say for example: "Rooskies were doomayiting that the removal of their favorite statooya was not such an horrorshow idea. So for two nochi in a row they went kreechating on the oolitsas and karsting the magazinas. Rooskie malchiveks and their young ptitsas went real bezoomny and were dratsing with the millicents all over the staryi gorod. The ultraviolence was fabulous. Tonnas of malchiveks got their zoobers kicked loose and one brat got his kishkas razrezzed out with a britva. No matter, they blamed it on the millicents ... "<BR/><BR/>Pooh. That was now totally off the topic. Sorry. I am bored.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-37631247226029173182008-03-01T14:29:00.000+02:002008-03-01T14:29:00.000+02:00So Ilves made a move against Ansip and all other E...So Ilves made a move against Ansip and all other Estonian politicians who used to give interviews in Russian?<BR/><BR/>The Swedish news agency TT seem to have the <A HREF="http://jumal.livejournal.com/192965.html" REL="nofollow">original transcript</A> of the interview, so they actually should have asked: Does the President still stand by the statement: "it means giving in an accepting fifty years of brutalisation of this country."<BR/><BR/>But they didn't. Now I think Estonian politicians, who give official interviews in Russian, are in a dilemma.n-lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03410971697891673149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-63055619356139454052008-03-01T11:30:00.000+02:002008-03-01T11:30:00.000+02:00I'm pretty much umbkeelne in Russian, but it seems...I'm pretty much <I>umbkeelne</I> in Russian, but it seems I always hear "ya ne znayu". I can't imagine English speaking people say "I don't know" quite as much as the average Russian does.<BR/><BR/>I have never heard of prashol -- sounds like "let's go".<BR/><BR/>By the way, I like how you have given the Russian phrases a Latinate feel -- "kak de la" -- much like Russian aristocrats in a Nabokov short story: Priat-qui? Priat-qui?Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-56662963037258202802008-03-01T11:17:00.000+02:002008-03-01T11:17:00.000+02:00I remember them yelling something like 'pasha' (sh...I remember them yelling something like 'pasha' (shame) but it sounded a lot like 'prasholl' (please). <BR/><BR/>What were they yelling when they made off with the designer jeans?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-73237118262958142872008-03-01T02:29:00.000+02:002008-03-01T02:29:00.000+02:00Well, G. didn't you learn at least learn ONE new w...Well, G. didn't you learn at least learn ONE new word from bronze-night? They tried so hard and it still does not click?<BR/><BR/>I am not going to tell you. It wasn't "fashisty". That's too easy. What's the other one? If you don't remember, watch the footage again, it's all over the place. Funny as shit.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-89091949194824540182008-03-01T01:19:00.000+02:002008-03-01T01:19:00.000+02:00I've seen Ansip give interviews in Russian to Russ...I've seen Ansip give interviews in Russian to Russian Aktuaalne Kamera.space_mazehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04761076198531074140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-54470172030827608512008-03-01T00:12:00.000+02:002008-03-01T00:12:00.000+02:00And what about Ansip? He gives interviews in Russi...And what about Ansip? He gives interviews in Russian sometimes (e.g. for Russian TV journalists).n-lanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03410971697891673149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1477243228162645072008-02-29T22:34:00.000+02:002008-02-29T22:34:00.000+02:00Nichevo/nitchevo is useful too. You're way ahead o...<I>Nichevo/nitchevo</I> is useful too. You're way ahead of me: that's it for my vocab, other than a couple of obscenities a kindly Esto-Russophone taught me (didactically, not abusively).<BR/><BR/><I>Nichevo</I>'s equivalent in Québecois is "Rien là." Used a lot. Curiously, a lot of unilingual Anglophones in Quebec have integrated "Nothing there" into their daily idiom, along with a barely perceptible gallic inflection in all their English. But the "Nothing there" used a couple of times in Toronto, say, gets a curious double-take at times.Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-48022188019561314022008-02-29T22:22:00.000+02:002008-02-29T22:22:00.000+02:00Almost forgot the most important Russian phrase:je...Almost forgot the most important Russian phrase:<BR/><BR/><B>je ne ponemaju</B><BR/><BR/>Right up there with 'jeg kan ikke forsta du' (dansk), 'no lo so' (italiano), and 'no se' (espanol).Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-63376694616079587722008-02-29T22:20:00.000+02:002008-02-29T22:20:00.000+02:00How about 'spasiba'? Goes right after 'noozhna nos...How about 'spasiba'? Goes right after 'noozhna nosh', and can be followed by 'ruki verhh'...<BR/>:)Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-13128267227944390352008-02-29T22:08:00.000+02:002008-02-29T22:08:00.000+02:00I wrote a fourteen page paper on why Estonian as o...I wrote a fourteen page paper on why Estonian as opposed to Gaelic stuck around. It's on my blog.<BR/>Anyone who's interested go read it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-81699454862794026002008-02-29T22:01:00.000+02:002008-02-29T22:01:00.000+02:00I think he must at least be able to read Cyrillic ...<I>I think he must at least be able to read Cyrillic alphabet. He certainly might have picked up some Russian while working for Radio Free Europe in the 1980s, covering topics on Soviet Estonia.</I><BR/><BR/>I can make out some cyrillic, and the scope of my Russian is:<BR/><BR/>da (yes)<BR/>niet (no)<BR/>shto? (what?)<BR/>aharashol (good)<BR/>prashol (please)<BR/>noozhna nosh (i need a knife)<BR/>zat knies (shut up)<BR/>kak de la (what's up)<BR/>shto de liet (what to do?)<BR/><BR/>and that's about it. Even knowing that doesn't mean I can read one or two words on the Russian Postimees website ... other than the Postimees logo, of course.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-10904871215706404752008-02-29T21:49:00.000+02:002008-02-29T21:49:00.000+02:00Ho-hum. So the Lynx can't speak Russian. Maybe it ...Ho-hum. So the Lynx can't speak Russian. Maybe it wasn't in his job description. Although he's NOT running a language school, he does pretty well. There's no pleasing everyone. And he pleases between 470 million and 1 billion Anglophones (estimates vary, depending on how one defines fluency in English). And he pleases 400m Hispanophone. And 130m Germanophones. And he's working (competently I'm sure) at pleasing 130m Francophones. Since he's defined his vision of Estonia as having a Western orientation, I thnk that's a pretty fair start...<BR/><BR/>Not all journos share Whewell's view. Here's another take:<BR/><BR/><I>"The loquacious Ilves, who, as well as English, also has a command of German and Spanish, always leaves a favourable impression. Listening to him is a treat. He wields a wonderful mix of intellectual insights and down-to-earth wisdom seldom found in public officials."</I><BR/> -European Voice, 4 October 2007Karlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16542671825995892455noreply@blogger.com