tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post4447111446461449103..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: talv on heaGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-76666573677230784042011-02-14T20:04:45.728+02:002011-02-14T20:04:45.728+02:00On the topic of "grumpy" estonians..
It...On the topic of "grumpy" estonians..<br /><br />It's just a matter of inflitrating that huge comfort zone of estonians. :)<br /><br />Once you're in it, they're friendly and glad to help and what not. <br /><br />So eh, I wouldn't say estonians are grumpy / angry / dug-in little goblins.. We simply have a.. Large comfort zone that seems to have a larger shell than other "westerners".keyboardwarriorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06405801870729101104noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-38562241775419991642011-02-13T12:45:07.280+02:002011-02-13T12:45:07.280+02:00Timbu you and your sister both have Estonian genes...Timbu you and your sister both have Estonian genes - undoubtedly the most interesting genes on earth as centuries of foreign invaders have passed through raping and plundering . . . my relatives who have been working in Finland for over a decade actually find the Finns boring and are homesick for the more interesting Estonian social environment.<br /><br />Recently the remains of some of Napoleon´s soldiers were uncovered in Lithuania. I know of at least one Estonian family that can trace its roots back to Napoleon´s army. Sometimes unrecorded history is the more telling - for myself I had always assumed the high rate of desertion during the difficult retreat from Russia took place somewhere around Poland.<br /><br />All told, Giustino shouldn´t be concerned about introducing Italian genes - they should feel most welcome in the gene pool - hope that frees you up to concentrate on the language.viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-47277164709738897982011-02-13T11:53:45.090+02:002011-02-13T11:53:45.090+02:00Back to the introverted Estonians: the snow and co...Back to the introverted Estonians: the snow and cold argument fails to convince me, since we still have the rather more sociable Finns to our north! I have this issue with a few relatives, with whom I'm sometimes unable to break the ice - including my sister. We've always been like cat and dog, reacting very differently to our shared growing environment, gotta be that she inherited some gene that I didn't.Timbuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03829033572898946628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-69545073777370688492011-02-12T14:51:18.795+02:002011-02-12T14:51:18.795+02:00Thanks for the explanation - almost makes you feel...Thanks for the explanation - almost makes you feel sorry for China - imagine having two hostile neighbors - and England too.<br /><br />Estonia has had to fight off mainly Germans and Russians, also Swedes and Poles (and an occasional fracas with the Latvians), though there are those that argue that if Estonia declared war on England and surrendered immediately we would be taken into the British Empire with all the protection that provides.viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-31088043198794875792011-02-11T23:05:46.298+02:002011-02-11T23:05:46.298+02:00Well the thing about China and Tibet is that it...Well the thing about China and Tibet is that it's not at all like Estonia and the Soviet Union, at least in historical perspective.<br /><br />First of all during the Tang dynasty they were both quite big and Tibet was a serious Empire on its own right. At the end of the 7th century Tibetans almost managed to take the city of Chang'an on one of their regular raids from the mountains to the lower plains.<br /><br />Add to that the rule of the Mongol Yuan dynasty (during which the Chinese population fell from about 120 million to 60 million) and the Manchu Qing dynasty. The Manchu people, by the way, had a very similar shamanistic Buddhist tradition to the Tibetan one. Add to that that the Manchu rulers were also the ones who were asleep at the wheel when the British screwed China over and some of the worst decisions of that time can be attributed to Manchu rulers (mainly opposing modernization in an attempt to hold on to their power and underestimating the military strength of the British).<br /><br />So - considering all that, it is hardly surprising that the Chinese are not very keen on Tibetan culture, freedom and rights, or that of any other of their minority peoples, as throughout their history, rule by or strong influence of non han-Chinese minority peoples has always been somewhat disastrous for them.<br /><br />Not that what is going on in Tibet is right in my opinion, but I just like to point out that this whole thing goes a lot deeper than the People's Republic of China vs Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai-Lama (which is a title invented by a Mongol ruler Alan Khan) and that the whole dynamic is very different from the Estonian Russian dynamic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-46028217250971943872011-02-11T15:51:56.728+02:002011-02-11T15:51:56.728+02:00How could I forget Tibet - the number 1 Asiatic tr...How could I forget Tibet - the number 1 Asiatic tribe teeming to be free - worse yet, how come no one caught that . . .viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-69683425263995519372011-02-11T15:51:01.258+02:002011-02-11T15:51:01.258+02:00How could I forget Tibet - the number 1 Asiatic tr...How could I forget Tibet - the number 1 Asiatic tribe teeming to be free - worse yet, how come no one caught that . . .viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-91975449272112325072011-02-10T16:53:01.722+02:002011-02-10T16:53:01.722+02:00Giustino, I get your frustration completely, no ne...<i>Giustino, I get your frustration completely, no need to get mad.</i><br /><br />Rainer, the frustration is with myself. It's one thing to know or not know a language. It's another thing when one person talks to you, and you understand everything, and then another person steps up and says something that you don't understand at all.<br /><br />This happens to people who speak English as a foreign language too, I'm told.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-51768116102176442592011-02-10T16:40:20.411+02:002011-02-10T16:40:20.411+02:00Happiness in Estonia is and has always been in sho...Happiness in Estonia is and has always been in short supply. People have learned to guard it jealously and not to reveal it by superfluous gestures. This is the secret how we have survived against the tides of hostile times and also the reason why there are not so many of us.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-13582444207041384132011-02-10T13:20:24.830+02:002011-02-10T13:20:24.830+02:00Cranky, are we, this language defies even the nati...Cranky, are we, this language defies even the natives so not to worry. More bothersome is your expectation of seeing people walking down the street with a lilt in their step - not going to happen with icy conditions. A better indicator of if people´s intimate life is in order would be, as you look out at Viljandi järv, to see if men are out ice-fishing.<br /><br />The folksy philosopher Vladislav Korzets (clear asiatic connection here as his mother brought him to Estonia from Siberia when he was an infant) advises that if your marriage is going through a lull to go ice-fishing... take some buddies along but never your wife.viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-54998811897733032362011-02-09T20:53:17.744+02:002011-02-09T20:53:17.744+02:00Giustino, I get your frustration completely, no ne...Giustino, I get your frustration completely, no need to get mad. It's just that you are famous for your relatively good comand of Estonian, and one has come to take that for granted. <br />I wasn't baffled by your mishearing/misspelling a word, I was baffled because you had managed to build an entire theory around a misunderstanding.Rainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160091690005391250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-57718067183241528642011-02-09T19:17:40.761+02:002011-02-09T19:17:40.761+02:00Invent new words much?
I believe the word is &quo...<i>Invent new words much?<br /><br />I believe the word is "häbelik" - meaning shy, timid, bashful. derives from the word "häbi", literally "shame".</i><br /><br />If I present to you the image of a blind foreign buffoon who is feeling his way through the darkness, then good, because I am, exactly. I haven't read this word before, only heard it. It did sound like 'häbelik,' but the context of the story was that 'vanad eestlased oli häbelikud, ei käinud segasaunas' or something along those lines. And I took häbelik/habelik to be related to the word 'habe,' as I don't know the word 'häbe' and 'häbi' (which sounds more like 'äbi' when people say it) didn't make sense (old people were shameful?) So I made my other interpretation that way, which, by the way, actually made sense. At least to me.<br /><br />I am completely thrust into a foreign environment. Most people around me don't speak English very well. I don't have spare time to learn thousands of words just so I can try and match them with the various grunts and mumbles tossed in my direction. Oh maybe he mumbled this, or maybe she grunted that.<br /><br />Sure, Estonians learn English well enough to write eloquent blog commentaries, but let's drop a few of them off in east London or Glasgow and see how well they manage. God, I don't even understand what the hell those people are saying.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-60767361762427806882011-02-09T16:17:19.114+02:002011-02-09T16:17:19.114+02:00And then there's also the word häbe... but I a...And then there's also the word häbe... but I am too häbelik to talk about it.fushihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14926954510421035643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-41526679821446356952011-02-09T16:08:45.501+02:002011-02-09T16:08:45.501+02:00Rainer, I think Giustino meant 'Habemik'.Rainer, I think Giustino meant 'Habemik'.Indrekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06136397475453220381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-29978825481265784162011-02-09T15:28:02.280+02:002011-02-09T15:28:02.280+02:00It is downright scary how Savisaar recruits and gr...It is downright scary how Savisaar recruits and grooms young people. What will happen to them when he is gone and they realize they represent no one else but the alienated Russian immigrant?<br /><br />The right wing, on the other hand, has had two instances when young professional people have gotten together and formed their own party: the Reform in the 1990s and Res Publica in the 2000s.<br /><br />If this is to be the way we experience the passing of generations in politics then Memetsu may be on to something and we can expect a Talendid Koju party in the 2010s.<br /><br />Is any of this of any help in understanding Estonian politics?viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-28655187704668873052011-02-09T14:21:08.413+02:002011-02-09T14:21:08.413+02:00"I like the word 'habelik' - which me..."I like the word 'habelik' - which means old fashioned or conservative, but literally means 'beardy' as 'habe' translates as 'beard.'"<br /><br />Invent new words much?<br /><br />I believe the word is "häbelik" - meaning shy, timid, bashful. derives from the word "häbi", literally "shame".Rainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160091690005391250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-76765596738060094652011-02-09T12:39:53.587+02:002011-02-09T12:39:53.587+02:00To english word "Wild" best translation ...<i>To english word "Wild" best translation is "Metsik". Similarity of mets and metsik gives us understanding how language once developed, and not so much about meaning of words.</i><br /><br />I like the word 'habelik' - which means old fashioned or conservative, but literally means 'beardy' as 'habe' translates as 'beard.'<br /><br /><i>During that blink of the eye the possible thoughts in Poker Faces tribe girl mind may vary from "damn this guy is pretty" to "I will never ever drink any more". Seriously.</i> <br /><br />She wasn't unfriendly. It was just the reaction that was different. Remember, I had just come from New York via Madrid and Stockholm. Each time I come to Estonia I notice this taciturn quality to some of the people for the first few days. I imagine the day when some Estonian who is completely sober will bound down the street, smiling and whistling because he or she got laid the night before.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-39719089337944327242011-02-08T20:27:31.996+02:002011-02-08T20:27:31.996+02:00Well they do grow up, but I am afraid they will no...Well they do grow up, but I am afraid they will not represent anything that could be called a democratic political culture.<br /><br />Political culture where one is motivated by the will and favor of "patry patriarch" does not bring about the rise of intelligent and creative leaders in the political hierarchy. It will simply produce more insecure authoritarian jerks who are afraid of debate and opponents who question their policies.<br /><br />And with a few exception most of the talented intelligent and creative young Estonians seem to be avoiding Estonian politics like the plague and prefer to get jobs elsewhere - often outside of Estonia in places where showing their intelligence is an asset and not a liability.<br /><br />Lets just hope that some of those people return to Estonia when they have secured themselves and then enter politics. If they are otherwise materially secure they would have no need to be a party soldier and their only motivation would come from whatever ideals they happen to support.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-83625426000888120952011-02-08T18:36:27.196+02:002011-02-08T18:36:27.196+02:00Savisaar modus operandi is to recruit young inexpe...Savisaar modus operandi is to recruit young inexperienced peopole, quickly promote them to the positions to which they do not qualify and then control them by fear and intimidation. <br /><br />It is a common practice in Estonia though. Is it good or is it bad to have child-bankers, child-polititians, child-businessmen? <br /><br />Eventually, everyone grows up, right?LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-28879278674295922942011-02-08T15:12:18.291+02:002011-02-08T15:12:18.291+02:00Looks like it’s going to keep snowing for a while ...Looks like it’s going to keep snowing for a while and that will keep me at the computer so I may as well tackle this unpalatable topic of Estonian politics.<br /><br />Giustino / I don’t have the sources at my disposal to do this research myself and don’t know if you do, but it seems to me that one of the analyses that hasn’t been done but is crying out to be looked at is political leaders’ fraternal affiliations. <br /><br />While for those on the inside a fraternity is a source of people you can depend on and trust through thick and thin (as well as a punitive structure for anyone who breaks the rules), for those on the outside it is an impenetrable inner circle. <br /><br />We know that in the early 1990’s Lennart Meri recruited heavily from EÜS because he knew that he was guaranteed to find young men who had not been tainted by the communist system. We are surprised that those young men who are now middle-aged haven´t done the same, suggesting that ´trust´ can get you stuck in your generation grouping as well as your social grouping (Fraternities are often formed on the basis of birds of a feather flocking together – for instance pre-war Vironia was composed of bankers and banking hopefuls. Banking is one area that requires a lot of trust and mutual respect. Post-communist era we have had banking mishaps where very clearly trust has been misplaced).<br /><br />Pre-war we know that Päts and most of his cronies belonged to the same fraternity (Estica I think), or so goes the lore. Lore also has it that Korp Sakala set out to break Korp Vironia´s hold on the banking industry, and did so by charging them with corruption, which suggests that there was some optimism about busting up an inner circle.<br /><br />While I can´t imagine Savisaar belonging to any fraternity, he does seem to be working with this same model of inner circle of trust, but he is actively recruiting young members. Worth considering?viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-75197175687823737602011-02-08T14:10:38.019+02:002011-02-08T14:10:38.019+02:00Back to the emotional toll foreign invasions take ...Back to the emotional toll foreign invasions take on a population and why some can find it difficult to forgive and forget. Anne Applebaum recently allowed that she thought that people who have lived under Communist terror for a long time have developed a desensitization to pain. I think I can go along with that because with any prolonged unpleasant stimulus a sort of immunity to it can be built up, but you have to work at it. Is it possible that Estonians have concentrated on working on their singing for so long and so hard that they have ignored the fact that there are people out their waiting to be forgiven? <br /><br />There is one population segment that you should be aware of, and that is the Repressed – mostly people who were deported to Siberia, survived, and have returned, but with a sprinkling of Metsavennad - all told those who have suffered most during the Occupation. You might expect that they are a bitter, gloomy bunch who spend their time plotting revenge. Why I know about them is that I have been after some local ones to write their memoirs, but they just don’t want to reflect on any unpleasantness. They get together regularly and they party, party, party. I backed off when I realized that a key element of their survival was a heightened awareness of the importance of sociability - of keeping each other’s spirits up, of having regular social interaction and everything that goes along with that.<br /><br />Yesterday there was a major meeting of the Repressed in Tallinn and the television coverage indeed was not of a morose crowd, but rather of octogenarians milling about and chatting, obviously delighted to be alive. We don’t have to look to Asia – we have people with the right formula right next door.<br /><br />However this does not change the political (read territorial) picture. As long as Kremlin types keep up their soviet-era legacies I don’t see Estonians dropping their vigilence, and the super-sociable Repressed will be the first to tell you why.viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-29266075108763010522011-02-08T13:27:01.760+02:002011-02-08T13:27:01.760+02:00Actually my rebuttal to Martasmimi was taking a wh...Actually my rebuttal to Martasmimi was taking a whole different direction – I was running down a list of what do Asiatic cultures have to teach us about ‘forgive and forget’ when the evening news said that Japan is still miffed that Russia is occupying their Kurile islands...<br /><br />No forgive and forget going on their. Asiatics are as territorial as anyone else. We think of the Chinese as being even-tempered because they have this vast ancient philosophical cache to draw on. But didn’t they at one point decide they really had had it with those pesky Mongolian invaders, and decided to build a great big wall to protect themselves rather than live in peace and harmony with their invaders. North Korea has isolated itself and that has turned them into freaks.<br /><br />I don’t see a lot of forgive and forget going on. Maybe among the Polynesian islanders – a lot of cruelty has been imposed upon them but I think there may be something about living on an island that makes them feel territorially protected. For me the jury is still out about the Filipinos, and how about those muslims in Indonesia?viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-54746737529224675752011-02-07T15:41:38.940+02:002011-02-07T15:41:38.940+02:00I was afraid I startled her. I felt as if I had be...<i>I was afraid I startled her. I felt as if I had been too forthcoming with my "tere hommikust." What to do?</i><br /><br />It's ok to say "Tere hommikust" in whatever manner to anyone and also all possible responces are ok. I think this little thing is not worth any serious analysis. During that blink of the eye the possible thoughts in Poker Faces tribe girl mind may vary from "damn this guy is pretty" to "I will never ever drink any more". Seriously. <br /><br />To english word "Wild" best translation is "Metsik". Similarity of <i>mets</i> and <i>metsik</i> gives us understanding how language once developed, and not so much about meaning of words. But. If you are interested in such details then probably even more surprising in Estonian language are ancient sayings from pagan times in everyday use of modern people, like: <i>"hinge heitma" ("ejecting the spirit" = to die), "vaimusilmas" ("in the eye of [my] ghost" = in my imagination), "meelelahutus" ("blending the mind" = cheap entertainment, wasting of time)</i>... When you notice them, you'll s$€t bricks.Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17928614985386874222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-57840967955266139412011-02-06T16:31:55.300+02:002011-02-06T16:31:55.300+02:00There´s more here than meets the eye. We know tha...There´s more here than meets the eye. We know that alchohol abuse continues through the summer when the days are overlong - much longer than anyone in the US can imagine.<br />The more stable people, those you don´t hear about, have developed their coping methods which include reading, concerts, handicrafts - you name it - for the rest, affluence has allowed trips to the sunny southern climates.<br />I´m not sure what the problem is here. I do remember that February was routinely the worst month for me in New York, no matter what the weather... probably a combination of totally expended internal resources and non-receptivity or non-availabitiy of external stimulation... Please note that no opera singer of note sings at the Met during February.viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-75185087431261774022011-02-05T10:53:37.991+02:002011-02-05T10:53:37.991+02:00"Yup, we're Asian"
Really?:) Good jo..."Yup, we're Asian"<br />Really?:) Good joke indeed.Meelishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06624197502208867055noreply@blogger.com