tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post4315211416495341528..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: Setomaa HämmätüsGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-78238871349873883992008-07-24T09:09:00.000+03:002008-07-24T09:09:00.000+03:00Interesting comments on the Võro language. You mig...Interesting comments on the Võro language. You might find this website to be interesting:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://wiki.chainofthoughts.com/dt/fiu-vro/" REL="nofollow">Võro wiki browser</A>Bryce Wesley Merklhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07221714925372581614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-41099166136778618002007-09-03T15:22:00.000+03:002007-09-03T15:22:00.000+03:00Finnish is almost right answer, but not entirely. ...Finnish is almost right answer, but not entirely. Language that fascinated and inspired Tolkien was Karelian. Whether we call it a dialect or separate language is a bit different question.Wahurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15861003012357572291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-57696582041834196962007-09-03T00:56:00.000+03:002007-09-03T00:56:00.000+03:00you mean the "sauce"you mean the "sauce"Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-14289321468608561292007-09-02T21:16:00.000+03:002007-09-02T21:16:00.000+03:00I just want to make clear for those who don't know...I just want to make clear for those who don't know: Lüübnitsa is located in Setomaa, but is not a Seto village. Lüübnitsa a Russian village, and not Old-Believers' either. It's just a Russian village on the coast of Lake Peipsi. <BR/>And "hämmastüs" is really "hämmätüs" - the souce:))Helenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12399790003672240892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-82597558599866884902007-08-31T11:05:00.000+03:002007-08-31T11:05:00.000+03:00the word is haudh, pronounced as "haud"the word is haudh, pronounced as "haud"plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-55383692460351480292007-08-30T23:30:00.000+03:002007-08-30T23:30:00.000+03:00Quenya was based on Finnish afaik.Also on few othe...Quenya was based on Finnish afaik.<BR/>Also on few other languages if you trust wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenya<BR/>Grave is hahta or something like that...?<BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Middle-Earth<BR/>Sorry for straying from the original topic. :)<BR/><BR/>http://www.passportmagazine.ru/article/450/Katherinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10177342761851729735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-87703245572814023242007-08-29T17:33:00.000+03:002007-08-29T17:33:00.000+03:00welsh and finnish.welsh and finnish.plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-33205945732707289192007-08-29T17:21:00.000+03:002007-08-29T17:21:00.000+03:00Sami language?Sami language?Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-47362935676007858952007-08-29T16:58:00.000+03:002007-08-29T16:58:00.000+03:00High elven language was heavily based on a real-wo...<I>High elven language was heavily based on a real-world language that Tolkien considered most beautiful language in the world. Which language?</I><BR/><BR/>I know it was Finno-Ugric, but don't remember which exactly. Probably a dialect of Finnish?antyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06567309109757565293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-10071398472541719752007-08-29T11:39:00.000+03:002007-08-29T11:39:00.000+03:00Another trivia question back to Wahur - how do you...Another trivia question back to Wahur - how do you say "grave" in elven tongue?plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-83340045231157998172007-08-29T09:35:00.000+03:002007-08-29T09:35:00.000+03:00Concerning finnish I also have to agree with Nipi....Concerning finnish I also have to agree with Nipi. I´m from Pärnu myself and had no experience with finnish at all till age of 14 and then moved near Tallinn and I understood finnish right away pretty well, like I had learned it or smth. I had only some problems with words which are very similar to estonian but mean in fact something totally diff, like "halpa- cheap" in finnish- in estonian halb- bad.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04935901565998236413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-4909164760084682862007-08-29T09:34:00.000+03:002007-08-29T09:34:00.000+03:00In fact I wrote about it couple of months ago here...In fact I wrote about it couple of months ago here. Differences between Southern and Northern dialect are not about changing, but about roots.<BR/><BR/>Approx. 2000 years ago Finnish languages formed three or four distinct groups. Northern group is current Häme dialect of Finnish, Southern is dead (Liivi). <BR/><BR/>Eastern group was located behind Peipsi and migrated also to North from there, forming a basis of Karelian, Inkeri and some other smaller languages. It also heavily influenced Estonian South-East dialects (Seto, Võro).<BR/><BR/>Western group is nowadays Estonian Northern dialect/official Estonian. Around year 800 there was a strong migration across Finnish gulf to north, therefore Southern Finnish dialects, especially Helsinki dialect is much more similar to Estonian, compared to official Finnish.<BR/><BR/>Official Finnish formed as a somewhat artificial entity, as a result of works of 18-19. century Finnish intellectuals (Lönnrot comes to mind) who mixed Southern Finnish with Karelian and Häme dialects (some of them actually had Karelian roots themselves).<BR/><BR/>So people from Tallinn and Virumaa will recognise one part of Finnish, and often say that Seto/Võro dialects reminds them Finnish exactly because both Finnish and Seto/Võro have roots in both ancient Western and Eastern dialect groups.<BR/><BR/>And finally, trivia question to those interested in languages. Author of "Lord of the Rings" Tolkien actually worked out grammars of the languages of the different races in his works. High elven language was heavily based on a real-world language that Tolkien considered most beautiful language in the world. Which language? Winner gets a beer :)Wahurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15861003012357572291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-38001926543882581892007-08-28T23:57:00.000+03:002007-08-28T23:57:00.000+03:00yes and no.ca 1979 took my grandma from Haanja to ...yes and no.<BR/>ca 1979 took my grandma from Haanja to Tallinn (first time in life) and she understood finnish tv much more than my mom, who has watched it since 67. It seems more individual, that may be right. But one is clear even for scientists - north-estonian language dialect has changed in time more than south, thus the south dialect is closer to roots as well as finnish language is closer to roots. Question remains, which were the roots.Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-68835719113979897102007-08-28T23:19:00.000+03:002007-08-28T23:19:00.000+03:00Estonian and Finnish aren't really that similar. I...Estonian and Finnish aren't really that similar. I, as a native speaker of Southern Estonian language variants (including Seto) cannot really understand Finnish (I honestly do speak proper Estonian too, so that can't be the case). I pick up some words and if I know the context, I understood something, but it is maybe just slightly more than what I understand of German or Norwegian, which I do not speak. Understanding comes from intense listening and some linguistic background. So I wouldn't be brave enough to say that these languages flow into each other. It may be easier to learn Finnish, but one still needs to learn it. The reason why so many Estonians understand Finnish or even speak and claim that they haven't learnt it, is that for a long time in 80s Northern Estonia was covered with Finnish television. And people watched it a lot and after a while they really became passive speakers of Finnish.***https://www.blogger.com/profile/00715269572116028409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-85495052364183748342007-08-28T23:12:00.000+03:002007-08-28T23:12:00.000+03:00well, even savisaar actually could bear another na...well, even savisaar actually could bear another name, russian. as well as velliste. a lot of russians in estonia have changed their names to local. fully legally btw.Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-59871117687083993912007-08-28T11:21:00.000+03:002007-08-28T11:21:00.000+03:00Setumaa is pretty isolated, even today. One can im...Setumaa is pretty isolated, even today. One can imagine farming near Värska for an eternity and having little interest in the outside world.<BR/><BR/>As for Rusak, his argument is that Estonia is an apartheid state because no minister has ever had a Russian surname, except Effendiev, but he has Azeri blood and was minister of ethnic affairs which "doesn't count".<BR/><BR/>;)Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-11172773673835884372007-08-28T10:02:00.000+03:002007-08-28T10:02:00.000+03:00The important thing about the Setu in Russia is th...The important thing about the Setu in Russia is that as descendants of citizens of the First Republic, they are entitled to birthright citizenship of Estonia. That helps.<BR/><BR/>And pride aside, Estonia doesn't really want to have another Russianized region to have to bootstrap up to the general living standard.antyxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06567309109757565293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-43499773804181181062007-08-28T09:52:00.000+03:002007-08-28T09:52:00.000+03:00This I've found on nordvux.net:'But what makes the...This I've found on nordvux.net:<BR/><BR/>'But what makes the Setus a special people is not so much their religion but their ancient oral cultural heritage. The Setus remember their ancient customs, folk songs, tales, dances and rituals remarkably better than all other regions in Estonia. A subsistantial amount of folk song texts in the Estonian Literature Museum have been recorded in Setumaa. The remarkable aspect here is that the songs sung by some illiterate Setu singers have been estimated to be over 5000 years old and several experts claim the Setu people to be the oldest settled people in Europe – they have not participated in any migrations.'Jens-Olafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18304784095687896639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-29475750659732316992007-08-27T23:20:00.000+03:002007-08-27T23:20:00.000+03:00That rusak is an interesting specimen. He has a g...That rusak is an interesting specimen. He has a good command of English which means that he should be able to gain access to all sorts of independent information other than what Putin feeds him, and yet he manages to filter whatever he reads through a sovok mindset and the result is what is simply dumbfounding - a disgusting bile russo-fascist BS.<BR/><BR/>It may be his job to debunk the Economist. We may be witnessing a Russian disinformation warrior in action. He seems to be paid for this. <BR/><BR/>That being said, I think Justin has proved that he too deserves to be paid for his efforts. Wink-wink.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-60154737078100707742007-08-27T22:05:00.000+03:002007-08-27T22:05:00.000+03:00Nothing to do with Setomaa (which is a great place...Nothing to do with Setomaa (which is a great place), but just read your exchange with that Russian idiot on Edward Lucas' blog. Giustino, your arguments were wonderfully precise and to the point, and you exposed that Rusak for the bigoted illiterate that he obviously is. You defense of Estonia was unparalelled. The Estonian Välisministeerium should hire you!kassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17763568040973491900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-59990483748602021322007-08-27T21:26:00.000+03:002007-08-27T21:26:00.000+03:00Maybe 'hämmastüs' means 'wonder' or 'surprise'? W...Maybe 'hämmastüs' means 'wonder' or 'surprise'? What was it?LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-42146896395811755202007-08-27T21:23:00.000+03:002007-08-27T21:23:00.000+03:00Nice photo. Very eclectic. I'm sure there's an hi...Nice photo. Very eclectic. I'm sure there's an hidden message here somewhere. Could it be political?LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.com