tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post3913140910848478962..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: ¡Ilves! ¡tarand! ¡Ilves!Giustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-39230297928467857752011-09-06T15:29:25.624+02:002011-09-06T15:29:25.624+02:00Arrogant and vain -- I suppose it can be given a p...Arrogant and vain -- I suppose it can be given a positive spin. <br /><br />It's also a good name for a wine bar in Tallinn. Or Kõrk and Vein, if you like.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-46027943140374158012011-09-06T13:32:55.051+02:002011-09-06T13:32:55.051+02:00I think what I detect among (successful) Estonians...I think what I detect among (successful) Estonians is what we would call "putting on airs." It's the idea that if you buy the right clothes, get the right car, the right haircut, live in the right neighborhood, offer guests the right wine, that you can somehow escape the fact that your ancestors were peasant farmers or that your grandmother lives in the countryside in a house with limited plumbing.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-71155407020112064242011-09-06T13:25:24.182+02:002011-09-06T13:25:24.182+02:00That Estonians read tabloids about famous people w...<i>That Estonians read tabloids about famous people who are famous for being famous? Which people in Europe actually does NOT read that kind of tabloid?</i><br /><br />But most countries in Europe are far bigger. I guess an Icelandic tabloid might measure up to an Estonian one in terms of glorification of a small country's natural incestuousness, but even a Danish tabloid is bound to include society figures with whom few "average" people come into contact. That's a much bigger pond.<br /><br /><br /><i>As one example, Estonian tabloids seem to care less about aristocracies than tabloids from other republics.</i><br /><br />That's what makes the vanity of the faux celebrities inside so much more hilarious. The aristocracies in countries like the UK are important because they are important. The nouveau riche aristocracy in Estonia is important because they own a big house or a nice car or go on vacation to nice places to rub elbows with the UK aristocracy. <br /><br /><i>As for arrogance, I wonder whether the author of this post has ever had contact with ordinary people from France, Italy and Germany (just to name countries with big population).</i><br /><br />I've been to all three countries and have relatives living in at least one. Italy is an enormous country compared to Estonia. The level of self importance must be examined from this perspective. If you are the mayor of Tartu, Estonia's second largest city, you represent about 100,000 people. If you are the mayor of Milan, Italy's second largest city, you represent 1.3 million people -- about as many as live in Estonia.<br /><br />Now, quick, tell me the name of the mayor of Milan!Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-8345201569252131702011-09-04T11:56:13.432+02:002011-09-04T11:56:13.432+02:00I've still seen no evidence that Estonians are...I've still seen no evidence that Estonians are any more arrogant than, say, Russians, or Americans, or Italians, or Germans, or...<br /><br />You see, my native country (Brazil) supposedly suffers from the opposite disease: we are 'too friendly', we 'trust too quickly', we 'don't believe in ourselves' -- Brazilians keep telling jokes about how f-ed up Brazilians are -- etc. etc. etc. But the moment Brazil attained some semblance of economic success and started being listened to internationally, I started hearing rather arrogant claims from politicians (starting with former president Lula himself).<br /><br />Also, just talking to people from our beloved neighbor countries -- especially small, poor ones like Paraguay or Bolivia -- and what they say Brazilians are like when they visit their countries can be an eye-opener: Brazilians can be every bit as arrogant, don't-f-k-with-us-we're-better-than-you as any other people. Just give them a chance.<br /><br />So, are Estonians any worse? I've only met a few of them thus far, and I have noticed a number of surprising features... but arrogance wasn't one of them. (But then again, they were abroad, in countries richer than Estonia, which does not exactly feed one's desire to show one's arrogant side.)<br /><br />National characters are difficult things to pin down.Lingüistahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327147408198046253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-7122865633683541852011-09-03T21:32:39.274+02:002011-09-03T21:32:39.274+02:00i thought they didn't have any money for extra...i thought they didn't have any money for extras._nagilum_https://www.blogger.com/profile/14939916813462734895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-48658117284834044002011-09-03T14:06:55.851+02:002011-09-03T14:06:55.851+02:00How much did Estonia pay for that soul of yours?How much did Estonia pay for that soul of yours?Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963438308918095833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-33220043462781577882011-09-02T21:38:01.391+02:002011-09-02T21:38:01.391+02:00lpr rainer, ricardo: but the estonians HAVE been b...lpr rainer, ricardo: but the estonians HAVE been betrayed. you can look at it whichever way you want: they got screwed by history several times over, learned the hard way that you can't rely on most of your so-called friends, had to hack their way out of misery and dictatorship twice in the same century, got 25% of their population arrested, displaced, murdered, were robbed, nationalised, the list is endless. they're suspicious, and who the hell could blame them? arrogance, yes; but the source is a rather justified "us against the rest of the world" mentality. because once the morally superior western world gives you a practical demonstration of how much their high and mighty talk is worth, by handing over your nation's gold reserves to the people who are keeping your land occupied for instance, some kitchen table let's all be friends and love and support each other till the end of time crap just doesn't do anymore. these things take time, and it's not the estonians who f'ed up. let them be annoyed with the world and each other, hell i would be if something alike had happened to my country._nagilum_https://www.blogger.com/profile/14939916813462734895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-48095928725488013432011-09-02T15:21:29.551+02:002011-09-02T15:21:29.551+02:00I admit, that by using traffic as an example of un...I admit, that by using traffic as an example of unfriendly estonian behavior was weak. I just meant the overall ärapanemine and generally hostile and rude atmosphere in Estonia.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-83026884637291913202011-09-02T14:44:14.070+02:002011-09-02T14:44:14.070+02:00"battle them in traffic"? Battle them in..."battle them in traffic"? Battle them in traffic???<br /><br />Excuse me "Liivimaa parim ratsutaja", but in which Estonia do you live????????????????<br /><br />I suggest you driving in Portugal, France or North Italy. I am not evil enough to suggest you to drive in South Italy though.Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08970558816916695424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1338541211969129272011-09-01T18:55:01.882+02:002011-09-01T18:55:01.882+02:00to Rainer
Interesting article you referenced. Th...to Rainer<br /><br />Interesting article you referenced. Thank you. Here is one that really struck me personally ...<br /><br />"Meie kultuur peaks andma võimaluse meenutada neid isikuid, kes tugevdavad meie kokkukuuluvustunnet, mitte tunnet, et meid on reedetud."<br /><br />I feel that our culture is more about betrayal rather than ühtekuuluvustunne. I cannot stand there and hold hands with my countrymen one day, and battle them in traffic and fight them in everyday situations the next. If we have anything in common it is the general ärapanemine. I like to be a winner so, I fight and all kinds of laulupidud and kumbmaya hold my hand teary moments are distractions to me.<br /><br />I am utterly sad and completely honest by saying that. My motto is and will continue to be "don't fuck with me" and I know everyone else has the same motto too. They will just not say it. Just watch them behave and you get it.<br /><br />Arrogance is a too soft a word to describe it.<br /><br />That's us. <br /><br />That's me.<br /><br />And it sucks and thats how it is.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-78181628514056410222011-09-01T17:41:48.229+02:002011-09-01T17:41:48.229+02:00I agree with Ricardo. This theory of (all) Estonia...I agree with Ricardo. This theory of (all) Estonians being arrogant and vain is something one would expect from Edward Lucas. A hefty generalization from someone who probably comes into contact with only certain kind of people, let's call them "the successful ones". <br />And yet there are plenty of people in Estonia suffering from the low self-esteem, sometimes to the point of self-hatred (a good article on the subject by Imbi Paju: http://www.postimees.ee/218362/imbi-paju-eneseviha-juured-reetmisest-ja-autundest/ ). Sadly this kind of national masochism is much more characteristic of certain social layers/generations in Estonia today than arrogance and vanity.Rainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160091690005391250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-7550503882001393492011-08-31T16:09:09.567+02:002011-08-31T16:09:09.567+02:00This whole article is based on the thesis of Eston...This whole article is based on the thesis of Estonian being arrogant and vain. However, evidence for that is really poor. That Estonians read tabloids about famous people who are famous for being famous? Which people in Europe actually does NOT read that kind of tabloid? Actually and from my experience, if that is the way to measure "vanity", I would say Estonians are less vain that the European average. As one example, Estonian tabloids seem to care less about aristocracies than tabloids from other republics.<br /><br />As for arrogance, I wonder whether the author of this post has ever had contact with ordinary people from France, Italy and Germany (just to name countries with big population).Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08970558816916695424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-18579109715139610852011-08-30T23:57:55.995+02:002011-08-30T23:57:55.995+02:00@Liivimaa
Amusing...I would often be met with du...@Liivimaa <br /><br />Amusing...I would often be met with dumbfounded looks by kodu Eestlased when I explained to them that in all the years that I have spent walking the sidewalks of New York, I have almost never encountered one of our Estonian kin folk. Just didn't seem possible to them. <br /><br />OTH, to relieve their anxiety over this, I would also mention that outside of a few enclaves like Brighton Beach, one rarely heard Russian spoken in the States and the average American probably spent less than 2 seconds a year wondering about what was going over there in ex commie land.Sepphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03963217354729135033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-5119528389714369922011-08-30T23:05:33.439+02:002011-08-30T23:05:33.439+02:00... but it is interesting to follow it all, all th...... but it is interesting to follow it all, all that's going on. only 25 votes against ilves; this means two things, a) that tarand may be popular with the people, but has little to no political weight (how could he, he's alone, and as long as you don't have to deliver, well, being a bit of a blowhole isn't such a bad thing); and b), the keskies aren't as happy as they used to be voting against their grand poobah's expressed enemy just for the hell of it. tarand slightly de-mystified and made to look a fool for keskerakond, savisaar on the way down. estonian politics might just become interesting after all._nagilum_https://www.blogger.com/profile/14939916813462734895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-37105015348848354062011-08-30T17:48:50.568+02:002011-08-30T17:48:50.568+02:00Estonian pop star Sal-Saller (arrogancy is part of...Estonian pop star Sal-Saller (arrogancy is part of his job description) has a line in one of his whiny fake foreign accented songs where he declares that "in Estonia, everyone is a superstar". I found it funny and dead-on. That also maybe explains why estonians do not like to big cities like New York etc. which make one feel insignificant. In a village, everyone is a superstar.<br /><br />Listen to maainimised complain about the "fast-paced" and "frantic" life in Tallinn. Makes you laugh when you are on NY or Moscow subway.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.com