tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post292179204036170158..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: a conversation with flasher tGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-61213939515829568352008-04-23T15:11:00.000+02:002008-04-23T15:11:00.000+02:00Viimneliivlane -- I think if you delve a little de...Viimneliivlane -- I think if you delve a little deeper into AnTyx, you will find the answers to your questions and find that he has not, like some of us, been all that contaminated by the US. It's called the blog archive.<BR/><BR/>Far be it for me to be a blog critic, but the best part about the Itching approach is that IFE doesn't come across as opinionated, though we all know where G stands on most issues by now. That's hard to do, in my opinion. <BR/><BR/>AnTyx seems to have more concrete ideas about "quo vadis Estonia" and can be wonkish, which is a good thing.<BR/><BR/>And -- I look forward to AhTyx's interview with Giustino.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-40095195509889317242008-04-22T21:26:00.000+02:002008-04-22T21:26:00.000+02:00Everyone holds Finland up as an example of how mas...<I>Everyone holds Finland up as an example of how masterfully theyäve integrated their Swedes, but go read Svenskfinland in English -- you'll see that nobody is ever happy. </I><BR/>Thanks for the mention.<BR/><BR/>Finland is often held up as a good example of how minority policy etc should be carried out. (Often, in practice, it's not as glowing as the laws make it out.. hence the moaning! ;) ). <BR/><BR/>However, integration is not the purpose. For that, it would have to be accepted (in policy at least) that Swedish-speaking Finns aren't Finnish. And thus need integrating into the Finnish-speaking society. The fact is that we are Swedish-speaking Finns and just as native as Finnish-speaking Finns. We are just as Finnish. So, we don't need integrating as we are part of the society. Swedish is a native tongue here, just as Finnish is.<BR/><BR/>I find it often quite misleading when we are compared to the Russian-speaking people in Estonia who exist in the Republic of Estonia due to a very different process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-36186703841241635922008-04-22T10:58:00.000+02:002008-04-22T10:58:00.000+02:00I’ve now read FlasherT’s blog and I found it much ...I’ve now read FlasherT’s blog and I found it much blander than your interview with him... I hope some of your approach wears off on him. However I would like to know if he has studied in the US. His English is excellent but well beyond the usual classroom-taught foreign language level. Also, he has Attitude which can only be gotten by breathing the air of New York or some other big American city. ‘Vaata minu täielikku profiili’ tells me the author’s Astrological sign and Zodiac year. Is the blog reader supposed to get psychic signals about the blog author’s educational background and travels from this?<BR/><BR/>In any case it’s very refreshing to have this clear-headed thinking going on as we approach the first anniversary of our very own Kristallnacht. It seems legitimate to call it that because the ‘have nots’ were looting the perceived ‘haves’ in an event separate from the planned event on Tõnismäe. The looting and burning was sparked off by but cannot be interpreted as a rational reaction to having a symbol of the Soviet Empire converted into a Memorial to War Dead by way of its relocating. I recall that last year after the events three European Inquisitors arrived separately but in rapid succession to charge Estonia with intolerance toward its minorities. No doubt on the one-year anniversary mark some questions will be asked about what steps have been taken.<BR/><BR/>I am not even sure that tolerance is an appropriate word in the context of Estonia. Estonians are exceedingly tolerant of all foreigners, having been forced to host them for centuries (some like to discuss all the mixed blood and arriving at the conclusion that there’s no pure Estonian). They feel themselves richer for it, having taken the best that each culture has to offer. Having the ability to discern the difference between good and bad is a learned trait (another area new and strange to Russians as they themselves are proud they didn’t let the Teutonic knights into their land – so Moscow will continue to tell us what is good). The educational institutions that the Swedish crown set up in Estonia are considered good. However, as far as the general population goes, Estonians will tell you wryly that the only thing ‘good’ about the ‘good old Swedish time’ was that when the master beat you to the ground you didn’t have to ask permission to get up before getting up. In a word, Estonians could teach other countries who never had these experiences what tolerance and the benefits you can reap from it are all about.<BR/><BR/>Why am I getting this theme of powerlessness in your interview with Flasher T when he seems so bright and a person capable of thinking things through? He feels powerless to effect change - there are two ways of effect change: through the legitimate channels of representative government or its violent overthrow. There has been a lot of overthrowing of governments in Estonia – it doesn’t have to involve violence – just go out and get involved in the process is the only advice to give young people.<BR/><BR/>Somehow it doesn’t even seem fair to discuss powerlessness among non-Estonians because the city governments of Tallinn and Narva are testing grounds for how well they are faring in this activity, given they lack the cultural background that comes from the concept of private property and the responsibility that goes with it (the Founding Fathers of America came from the ranks of farmers and people with a stake in the new nation, not from among the wretched and disenfranchised – always remember it’s about representative government). Watching the politicians of Tallinn and Narva at work I can’t dichotomize by ethnic background, but rather by kolhooz-era mentality vs. euro-think, no matter if their surname is slavic.<BR/><BR/>If FlasherT wants to participate more that’s good – he’ll find a way. But please tell me he believes in balance of power and doesn’t want Estonia turned into more Russia! What is it he wants to change – you’ve aroused my curiosity so please explicate – this could be the beginning of a brilliant new political career so please do interview him again.viimneliivlanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17658164527165429943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-22897809332943960252008-04-20T22:26:00.000+02:002008-04-20T22:26:00.000+02:00Giustino ütles...saidLook, integration is a tricky...Giustino ütles...said<BR/>Look, integration is a tricky thing. I went to a very diverse school, and the Arabs dated the Arabs, the Jews dated the Jews, the Filipinos mostly dated the other Filipinos.<BR/>***************<BR/>It's the Noah principal, two by two, like unto like..<BR/><BR/>Pam Greenwood Phd. a scientist, and family member recently shared this with me.<BR/><BR/>"There is a theory about this in evolutionary terms - it equates love with the proportion of shared genes. Not too romantic, but it is likely that humans are wired this way too."<BR/>This would explain why most people are attracted to others who are the most like them and/or their family members.Martasmimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904404170845733669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-58990792813735423212008-04-20T17:59:00.000+02:002008-04-20T17:59:00.000+02:00Look, integration is a tricky thing. I went to a v...Look, integration is a tricky thing. I went to a very diverse school, and the Arabs dated the Arabs, the Jews dated the Jews, the Filipinos mostly dated the other Filipinos. <BR/><BR/>Everyone holds Finland up as an example of how masterfully theyäve integrated their Swedes, but go read Svenskfinland in English -- you'll see that nobody is ever happy.<BR/><BR/>The goal is not that everyone is friends and gets along. The goal is that society is able to function in a civilized manner.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-68869399515255743162008-04-20T16:50:00.000+02:002008-04-20T16:50:00.000+02:00I think they have Abkhaz roots. Or Ossetian.I think they have Abkhaz roots. Or Ossetian.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-17698521880342757002008-04-20T16:18:00.000+02:002008-04-20T16:18:00.000+02:00Yep, that's interesting question.Caucasian - meani...Yep, that's interesting question.<BR/>Caucasian - meaning the person, who originates from Caucasus hills - the area, between Black Sea and Caspian Sea.Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-25412105584265115142008-04-20T15:43:00.000+02:002008-04-20T15:43:00.000+02:00Giustino ütles... saidEWMR,My children are not eve...Giustino ütles... said<BR/>EWMR,<BR/><BR/>My children are not even half Estonian, but no one ever doubts their "Estonianness". My child plays with other children who have Swedish, Caucasian, and other backgrounds.<BR/><BR/>I am curious about what country Caucasions come from? <BR/>Do they come from Caucasia?<BR/>Where is that exactly?<BR/>Is there no need for PC-ness in Eastiland?<BR/><BR/>...and FYI the other day when<BR/>I spoke with Marta, she told me quite emphatically that she is still a New York Girl! : )Martasmimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00904404170845733669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-85425989472713646272008-04-20T11:05:00.000+02:002008-04-20T11:05:00.000+02:00EWMR,My children are not even half Estonian, but n...EWMR,<BR/><BR/>My children are not even half Estonian, but no one ever doubts their "Estonianness". My child plays with other children who have Swedish, Caucasian, and other backgrounds. <BR/><BR/>So, like I said, I have good reason to reject the "us" versus "them", "Estonian" vs. "Russian" dichotomy.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-50715912467349903762008-04-19T23:43:00.000+02:002008-04-19T23:43:00.000+02:00Wishful thinkingWishful thinkingEstonia in World Media (Rus)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13791711276337826586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-42277289223143046002008-04-19T21:42:00.000+02:002008-04-19T21:42:00.000+02:00Thanks Giustino for perfect answer. For me it seem...<I>Thanks Giustino for perfect answer. For me it seems fine - but - how to reach to this status? What is your opinion on school system etc - or - where we have to start - or - how long it all takes... Can we do something at all or it is all the matter of time?</I><BR/><BR/>Things are already trending in the right direction, especially since the "Bronze" night. <BR/><BR/>I gave the example of Sutrop -- he was publicly shamed for his off-the-cuff remark, not only by Estonian Russians, but by Estonians too. <BR/><BR/>Ilves also was criticized for his "speaking Russian = accepting occupation" comment by Estonians and Estonian Russians.<BR/><BR/>This shows that society is beginning to police itself over what is acceptable to say and what is not acceptable to say. And the kind of populist language that surrounded the Bronze Soldier controversy has been determined by a majority to be against the public interest. <BR/><BR/>There are reactive elements in society. But all they can do is writhe around and complain. Because they have no vision of the future, they are condemned to marginalization.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-85530537650571977182008-04-19T13:47:00.000+02:002008-04-19T13:47:00.000+02:00Thanks Giustino for perfect answer. For me it seem...Thanks Giustino for perfect answer. For me it seems fine - but - how to reach to this status? What is your opinion on school system etc - or - where we have to start - or - how long it all takes... Can we do something at all or it is all the matter of time?<BR/>And yes, it is not only relatively small bunch of 'nationalists' who believe that occupying nation has to go back.. - but more of mostly russian speaking not so small community.Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-13837477160746316742008-04-19T13:22:00.000+02:002008-04-19T13:22:00.000+02:00Well, what is integration? Is it only language?Int...<I>Well, what is integration? Is it only language?</I><BR/><BR/>Integration means conceptualizing Estonia as a place where the people are linked together less by their ancestry but by their relationship to that place. In fact, ethnic identity should be subverted by 'national' identity. <BR/><BR/>We regularly deal with people with Russian, Ukrainian, Finnish, Hungarian, Jewish, and other roots. But it is never a factor in interpersonal relations beyond superficial curiosity. <BR/><BR/>That national umbrella should be expanded to cover the heads of more people in Estonia who stop thinking of themselves as ethnic Estonians or ethnic Russians first, but national Estonians first, family background second.<BR/><BR/>For some Estonian nationalists, whose discourse is based on "us" and what "they" did against "us" this will be a real problem. For reactionary Soviet remnants, it will be as well. <BR/><BR/>But if people with Georgian names and German names and Estonian names and Finnish names are all working together and use Estonian as their operating language, pay taxes to the Estonian state, and put their flag out on Feb, 24, then what more do you request from people?<BR/><BR/>I know plenty of "Russians" who are actually totally integrated. their discourse and their relationship to the outside world is determined by their presence in Estonia. Their President, like it or not, is Ilves, not Putin. <BR/><BR/><I>Where was or is this "non-blog"-interview to be published?</I><BR/><BR/>It was for a school-related project.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-35874323346752881782008-04-19T12:30:00.000+02:002008-04-19T12:30:00.000+02:00Giustino, I ask you once again: Where was or is th...Giustino, I ask you once again: Where was or is this "non-blog"-interview to be published?Rainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160091690005391250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-72977663600083312882008-04-19T12:29:00.000+02:002008-04-19T12:29:00.000+02:00Well, what is integration? Is it only language?Well, what is integration? Is it only language?Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-77930623412410251782008-04-19T12:16:00.000+02:002008-04-19T12:16:00.000+02:00You should ask Flasher on his blog.My perspective ...You should ask Flasher on his blog.<BR/><BR/>My perspective is that Estonia more or less has the right outlook on integration: one multicultural state that uses kirjakeel as the main vehicle for inter-communal communication.<BR/><BR/>It's like in Italy, people speak Sicilian or Calabrese or Neapolitan or even Albanian or German -- but when they meet in Rome they speak the Florentine dialect, also known as the official language.<BR/><BR/>Did you notice how Urmas Sutrop was shot down after he remarked that the widespread learning of Estonian by non-native speakers was a threat to the language? People were up in arms. "How dare he tell us we can't speak Estonian!?"<BR/><BR/>We've come from "why bother speaking Estonian, it's a dying language" to "how dare they tell us we can't speak the national language?" That is progress.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-15580191880221228492008-04-19T11:24:00.000+02:002008-04-19T11:24:00.000+02:00Flasher is sometimes writing also here. What is hi...Flasher is sometimes writing also here. What is his attitude to Estonian language?<BR/>What kind of problems he thinks are important here. And his opinion on integration? What, if, how etc.<BR/>Giustino is learning estonian - through family ties.. But opinion on integration - and parallels around the world?Ain Kendrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10603751575824748326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-32269371516022743862008-04-19T01:05:00.000+02:002008-04-19T01:05:00.000+02:00Hello. This post is likeable, and your blog is ver...Hello. This post is likeable, and your blog is very interesting, congratulations :-). I will add in my blogroll =). If possible gives a last there on my blog, it is about the <A HREF="http://massagem-brasil.blogspot.com" REL="nofollow">Massagem</A>, I hope you enjoy. The address is http://massagem-brasil.blogspot.com. A hug.<A HREF="1788802424" REL="nofollow"></A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-74610437971428255772008-04-18T14:08:00.000+02:002008-04-18T14:08:00.000+02:00"Estonia is moving from ethnic nationality to civi..."Estonia is moving from ethnic nationality to civic nationality, while retaining the national language"<BR/><BR/>Interestingly it's the young Russians who also speak Estonian who are the biggest gainers from this situation. I read a day or two ago that Urmas Paet said that bilingual young Russians are actually better positioned on the Estonian job market than their ethnic Estonian counterparts. So I would have to agree that if the tide is turning that way, a civic rather than ethnic identity is slowly taking over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-2901348593704136592008-04-18T10:39:00.000+02:002008-04-18T10:39:00.000+02:00Estonia is moving from ethnic nationality to civic...Estonia is moving from ethnic nationality to civic nationality, while retaining the national language.<BR/><BR/>EU membership actually plays a subliminal role in this as does increasing urbanization. Estonians used to be more connected to the land and have local dialects. Now they are more urban and generally speak the 'kirjakeel' -- official language.<BR/><BR/>There is a tremendous gap between, say, my wife's grandparents' generation and her own. I mean most Estonians born in the '20s still had German names!Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-14026873385381603782008-04-18T08:28:00.000+02:002008-04-18T08:28:00.000+02:00The whole point of course IMO is that Estonia (at ...The whole point of course IMO is that Estonia (at this point) would be about the least likely place to encourage such eugenic ways of thinking -- or even require people to pigeonhole themselves as a member of one nationality.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-90796650602927361542008-04-18T08:26:00.000+02:002008-04-18T08:26:00.000+02:00Where was or is this "non-blog"-interview to be pu...Where was or is this "non-blog"-interview to be published?Rainerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11160091690005391250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-78515626771915914992008-04-17T21:06:00.000+02:002008-04-17T21:06:00.000+02:00We need more russians like Flasher. (I know, I kno...We need more russians like Flasher. (I know, I know, he is not really russian, etc., etc.)<BR/><BR/>But it is a national security issue, folks. This guy should be cloned ASAP by an executive order from the President.<BR/><BR/>One day I'll meet him. I'll seek him out. It would be very nice to talk to somebody who is so intelligent and fair minded. A breath of fresh air.<BR/><BR/>Regards.<BR/><BR/>A.LPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397977705898254598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-37254149007960866242008-04-17T15:58:00.000+02:002008-04-17T15:58:00.000+02:00I had to explain Flasher's background in class. I ...I had to explain Flasher's background in class. I don't think people understood how there are other minorities in Estonia other than "Russians". <BR/><BR/>This is particularly funny because a significant chunk of our friends are not "pure" Estonians. One is half Hungarian, for example. I wonder how I would have presented her to the class. "The interviewee is a half Estonian half Hungarian who speaks Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian ..."Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-73947842932179789302008-04-17T12:12:00.000+02:002008-04-17T12:12:00.000+02:00Autor on selle kommentaari eemaldanud.Kristopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01394211030848077681noreply@blogger.com