tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post116053149206380702..comments2023-11-05T09:55:13.077+02:00Comments on Itching for Eestimaa: Well Look Who Came to the PartyGiustinohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161180593732951042006-10-18T16:09:00.000+02:002006-10-18T16:09:00.000+02:00Actually, the wood heating is the best in many ter...Actually, the wood heating is the best in many terms. Not as polluting, not many resources are used to dig/drill/transport/burn it. And you can use the fireplace when it's needed...:-)<BR/><BR/>About Kalamaja - that's the result of the rapid social changes and politics. Unfortunately not all elderly people are looked after by state (or by relatives). Their lifelong work in Soviet Union doesn't count in Estonia. But I think it's similar to all post-Soviet countries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161179051022703162006-10-18T15:44:00.000+02:002006-10-18T15:44:00.000+02:00but talking about stereotypes. the Swedes think th...<I>but talking about stereotypes. the Swedes think that Estonian men are "too macho" and women "too slutty".<BR/><BR/>interestingly enough, the typical Nordic man is here believed to be overly feminine and women - well, women are believed to be simply ugly.</I><BR/><BR/>My half brother has Norwegian roots, and when I told him about the 'metrosexuality' of Nordic males he didn't believe it. That's because the 'old' image of a Nordic man in the US - that comes down from the waves of emigration in the 19th century is of very tough, very cold, very masculine guys. I would say that the metrosexual Northern male is a relatively new phenomenon.<BR/><BR/><I>Well, for the truth's sake I must admit that I've met enough Swedish and Finnish beauties to disprove the last claim.</I><BR/><BR/>Estonian women wear more make-up. I guess that's what this is all about :)<BR/><BR/><I>but I HAVE seen young men (so-called metrosexuals) in Stockholm who wear totally feminine haircuts. and I'm not just talking about long hair and hair foam here... so the macho-claim might be partially true.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know, dude. Juhan Ulfsak [the fellow in this ad campaign - http://www.ksa.ee/ - ] looks pretty metrosexual to me.<BR/><BR/>And many of the men I met in Denmark were total bastards. Perhaps in Danish they were polite, but when they spoke English to me it was all: "then i f*cked her, then her, then her" - I can see where the Viking blood showed itself. There was still much raping and pillaging - just in designer shirts.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161178480779102912006-10-18T15:34:00.000+02:002006-10-18T15:34:00.000+02:00And, oh, Nordic Airlines (SAS), Air France and Luf...<I>And, oh, Nordic Airlines (SAS), Air France and Lufthansa are BIG airlines and they are flying to Tallinn. Either by themselves or through code-sharing.</I><BR/><BR/>I was thinking of direct flights - so hard to find when you live in New York.<BR/><BR/><I>Sure, for an American it might seem that the Estonia is isolated. Sure, we don't have (yet) supermarkets the size of small town where you can shop your a** off.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh yes you do. Stockmann today looks quaint compared to the relatively new Kaubamaja. And I spent plenty of time roaming the Jarve Selver. That place is huge.<BR/><BR/>What I don't get is how there can be such material wealth in the country, but then you go out to the exterior of Kalamaja and there are old people living in warped homes with wood heating and roaming populations of feral cats.<BR/><BR/>It's very interesting. Not like I have anything against the little miisus or nurrs. And I have met many people who insist that wood heating is best.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161178017152128502006-10-18T15:26:00.000+02:002006-10-18T15:26:00.000+02:00Really very strange. I have never had such feeling...<I>Really very strange. I have never had such feeling. There is possible to travel from Estonia to Germany with bus. But it is not possible from Finland</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, it's <I>technically</I> possible. But why the hell would you do it? The same thing goes for the bus ride from Berlin to Tallinn.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161177831803401422006-10-18T15:23:00.000+02:002006-10-18T15:23:00.000+02:00@plasma-jack: I have to correct you here :-)You ar...@plasma-jack: I have to correct you here :-)<BR/><BR/>You are correct, it's wrong to refer Maris (who are living in North Urals) and Vadjas (who don't). However, Vadjas are not from Vaiga (Wegele) region. Vadjas are claimed to name the region though...<BR/><BR/>Vadjas were historically occupying the territory called Ingerimaa (Ingria, currently Leningrad oblast in Russian Federation). <BR/>See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingria<BR/><BR/>Vadjas themselves claimed that the territory between Gulf of Finland and Lake Peipsi originally belongs to them - to 'vaddelasit' (loosely translated: 'aborigines') <BR/><BR/>That is far off from the topic of the discussion though :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161166831596920882006-10-18T12:20:00.000+02:002006-10-18T12:20:00.000+02:00End is: /lugu6.htmEnd is: /lugu6.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161166762698804102006-10-18T12:19:00.000+02:002006-10-18T12:19:00.000+02:00vana.www.postimees.ee:8080/leht/00/02/19e/lugu6.ht...vana.www.postimees.ee:8080/leht/00/02/19e/lugu6.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161166715698417672006-10-18T12:18:00.000+02:002006-10-18T12:18:00.000+02:00Read for example this:http://vana.www.postimees.ee...Read for example this:<BR/>http://vana.www.postimees.ee:8080/leht/00/02/19e/lugu6.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161164256390520622006-10-18T11:37:00.000+02:002006-10-18T11:37:00.000+02:00As we Finns are accepted as Nordics, I think it sh...As we Finns are accepted as Nordics, I think it should be absolutely clear that Estonians should be too. Estonians are our closest relatives, period.<BR/><BR/>I'm looking forward to Estonia joining the eurozone. It'll be great finally to be able to travel to a close neighbor without having to worry about the exchange rate.<BR/><BR/>Can it really be proven without doubt that Estonia was far wealthier than Finland in the interwar (1918-1939) period? I've heard this story in Finland many times that Estonia was so rich and Finland so poor back then, yet I recently saw somewhere in Finland someone (too bad I don't have that data and don't remember where it was) citing a source that Estonia and Finland were equally rich, or equally poor, before the war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161157631435008172006-10-18T09:47:00.000+02:002006-10-18T09:47:00.000+02:00@kalju - pean natuke tähti närima / I must chew th...@kalju - pean natuke tähti närima / I must chew the letters a little (:<BR/><BR/>the Vadias actually lived in Vaiga, today's Jõgevamaa, not in Urals.<BR/><BR/><I>Strangely enough nobody doubted in Estonians being Nordic nation when Estonian vikings burned down Swedish capital Siktuna in retaliation of Swedish vikings invading Ösel (Saaremaa).</I><BR/><BR/>well that's a nice and romantic story, but unfortunately it has no historical backup. although a great opportunity to taunt Swedes.<BR/><BR/>but talking about stereotypes. the Swedes think that Estonian men are "too macho" and women "too slutty". <BR/><BR/>interestingly enough, the typical Nordic man is here believed to be overly feminine and women - well, women are believed to be simply ugly. <BR/><BR/>Well, for the truth's sake I must admit that I've met enough Swedish and Finnish beauties to disprove the last claim. <BR/><BR/>but I HAVE seen young men (so-called metrosexuals) in Stockholm who wear totally feminine haircuts. and I'm not just talking about long hair and hair foam here... so the macho-claim might be partially true.<BR/><BR/>you don't usually see people in Tallinn with haircuts like David Beckham here<BR/><BR/>http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/hair_beckham.jpgplasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161156368514432362006-10-18T09:26:00.000+02:002006-10-18T09:26:00.000+02:00Oh, come on... From historical sources you can see...Oh, come on... <BR/><BR/>From historical sources you can see that Estonians, among vikings, played major part in Russia's history. Vikings, in Russia they were called 'varyags', were the founding source of Russia's ruling dynasty 'Rjurik'. There are numerous references in Russia's history that are talking about 'tchuuts' - Estonians - playing major roll in it. Heck, we even beat the s*** out of Russia in Independence War in 1918 when Russia invaded Estonia. So Russia is not strange country to us.<BR/><BR/>Sure, for an American it might seem that the Estonia is isolated. Sure, we don't have (yet) supermarkets the size of small town where you can shop your a** off. And besides, I'm not convinced that I would like such 'civilization'.<BR/>Look at the map of Estonia. You can hardly find any villages. You can find small towns but not villages like in Russia. Estonians have been always keeping some distance between their neighbors. We are happy to be left alone.<BR/><BR/>And, oh, Nordic Airlines (SAS), Air France and Lufthansa are BIG airlines and they are flying to Tallinn. Either by themselves or through code-sharing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161153947512820152006-10-18T08:45:00.000+02:002006-10-18T08:45:00.000+02:00"Estonia to me feels like an island"Really very st..."Estonia to me feels like an island"<BR/>Really very strange. I have never had such feeling. There is possible to travel from Estonia to Germany with bus. But it is not possible from FinlandAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161153772883983972006-10-18T08:42:00.000+02:002006-10-18T08:42:00.000+02:00"three generations under Soviet Union. That's more..."three generations under Soviet Union. That's more than 60 years by the way."<BR/>More than 60 years? Hm? 1940-1941 and 1944-1991. It's 48 yearsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161134167663709192006-10-18T03:16:00.000+02:002006-10-18T03:16:00.000+02:00Estonia to me feels like an island. You are sittin...Estonia to me feels like an island. You are sitting up there looking across the Gulf of Finland at the lights of civilization (can you imagine, Helsinki as 'civilization'?).<BR/>And that's sort of it. To the East is Russia with it's strange alphabet and orthodox church and heavy history. To the south is Latvia, but, I don't know - Riga seems far away. No BIG airlines fly there - sure Finnair and Czech Airlines have smaller connection flights, but overall, there is a sense of isolation.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161109031266241542006-10-17T20:17:00.000+02:002006-10-17T20:17:00.000+02:00I guess it would help if before arguing about some...I guess it would help if before arguing about something one should have at least some knowledge about the subject.<BR/><BR/>Balts? What's that? Estonians belong to finno-ugric ethnic group. The same group as Hungarians, Finns, Maris and Vadjas (the last two are still in Russian territory in Northern Urals). The ethnic history actually shows that Finns were the ones who travelled a bit more north and settled in current Finland. First signs of Estonians are bit older than Finns, both still more than 5000 years old. One of the oldest ethnic groups in Europe…<BR/>So don't count Estonians as Balts - that's the obsolete thinking from former Soviet Union where three Baltic States were so different from others that they were counted as one "nation". Latvia and Lithuania are from different cultural and ethnic backgrounds.<BR/><BR/>Women’s rights? From history one could see that Estonia was in the same pace with most Nordic countries to grant voting rights to women (1918), virtually first country in the world to grant cultural autonomy to minority nations (1925). <BR/>Welfare? Estonia was far wealthier country before WWII compare to Finland and Poland for example.<BR/><BR/>Strangely enough nobody doubted in Estonians being Nordic nation when Estonian vikings burned down Swedish capital Siktuna in retaliation of Swedish vikings invading Ösel (Saaremaa). Then we were same Nordic Warriors, feared throughout Europe. That’s correct, Estonians are the reason why Stockholm was named new capital of Sweden :-)<BR/><BR/>Now please add life for three generations under Soviet Union. That's more than 60 years by the way. There are saying that to change something in society it take one generation - we were changed as a nation and as a country once proud of it's achievements. Could you imagine what would be different if same happened in Sweden or in Finland? And you guys were living in Soviet Union for 60 years?<BR/><BR/>Jens-Olaf is right. Culturally and ethnically Estonians are similar to Nordic nations. Correct, today with twists from communistic Soviet Union past. That's true. But hey guys - it's not even a generation passed since we regained our independence. Give us some time to get used to being independent again, and being proud of our country. Look what we achieved in 15 years. And imagine what we will achieve in next 15…Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161014184641564792006-10-16T17:56:00.000+02:002006-10-16T17:56:00.000+02:00Giustino, you say Danish women are loose and act l...Giustino, you say Danish women are loose and act like hookers. That's such a stereotype. In a truly Nordic country it doesn't matter if you are sexually promiscuous. That doesn't make a woman a hooker. There's a difference between having promiscous sex and being paid for it. If you have sex and have a right to enjoy that sex yourself and you can call the shots at least some of the time while having sex, then you ain't a hooker.<BR/><BR/>Danish women are free and they have a higher suicide rate than women in most other European countries. That means they have responsibilities and power.<BR/><BR/>I think Estonia is becoming Nordic when it comes to gender roles and glbt rights. It's Latvia that wants to stay Baltic and will be the Alabama of Europe. Estonia is the most tolerant and progressive of the Baltic countries. Sure, people will say that the Estonian men beat their women and this is why Estonia is not Nordic. But domestic violence is a major problem in Finland and Sweden as well. It often is in countries where hard liquor is commonly consumed in order to get absolutely blasted (rather than beer being drunk in order to be social). But women can use violence too, especially if it's culturally ok for them to get drunk. If Estonian women drink less than Scandinavian women, then they are probably less Nordic.<BR/><BR/>About the 1950s: gay sex was legalized in Denmark in the 1930s and in Sweden in the 1940s. In Finland there were trials and people ending up in mental institutions (Soviet-style) throughout the 1950s way into the 1960s. In Finland even lesbians were convicted during the 1950s for having sex; in most countries of the world the anti-gay laws existed to control gay men, not lesbians.<BR/><BR/>The tabloids are having a field day in Finland with the Estonian ex-girlfriend of the party secretary of the conservative party (Kokoomus) having prostituted herself in his flat. Now had he had a Danish girlfriend, she would have gotten her revenge by cheating on him in his flat, not by selling sex in his flat. This is the key difference in acting like a hooker and acting like Bill Clinton. A Danish woman would probably act a lot more like Bill Clinton, which has nothing to do with acting like a hooker.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161011415219328672006-10-16T17:10:00.000+02:002006-10-16T17:10:00.000+02:00And Tallinn is pretty slavic, because it only has ...<I>And Tallinn is pretty slavic, because it only has an Estonian population of ~50%. Probably the only city with such a low percentage of Estonians outside Ida-Virumaa.</I><BR/><BR/>Estonians are 55 percent in Tallinn. I think I made that judgement because I have noticed that the young people in Tallinn are more "trendy" than in other Estonian cities. The females APPEAR to wear more make-up, wear more revealing/outlandish clothing, spend more money on appearance, etc.<BR/><BR/>This outward appearance is probably what led our anonymous and our Swedish posters to describe Estonia as 'slavic' when it comes to gender issues or that Estonian women 'look like prostitutes.' Yeah, some young women in Tallinn dress 'like prostitutes' [although the only *real* prostitutes I have seen are the ones on the streets of Washington, DC, and they didn't look like Estonian women.]<BR/><BR/>I can see how one might come to that conclusion having spent time in Tallinn. But I haven't really seen those trends echoed around the country. Someone said that perhaps Russian fashion trends/customs were influencing the Estonian ones in Tallinn. Could be.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161010435998785152006-10-16T16:53:00.000+02:002006-10-16T16:53:00.000+02:00The income tax is 23% this year and if the Reform ...The income tax is 23% this year and if the Reform Party stays in government, they are probably going forth with their program to lower it to 20%.<BR/><BR/>And Tallinn is pretty slavic, because it only has an Estonian population of ~50%. Probably the only city with such a low percentage of Estonians outside Ida-Virumaa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1161003862357732202006-10-16T15:04:00.000+02:002006-10-16T15:04:00.000+02:00It doesn't matter whether there's NATO or not. It ...<I>It doesn't matter whether there's NATO or not. It doesn't matter if there's EU or not. There's Nordic Council that makes the politics of Norden. It has ALWAYS been that way. The idea of "NORDIC" bases on that!</I><BR/><BR/>Always. Since 1952. <BR/><BR/><I>It's a cultural concept. It's about welfare state, it's about the same sense of humor, gender equality and simple Nordic design. It's about depression and straight talk.</I><BR/><BR/>Estonian humor is dark and sinister. I don't even find it that funny.<BR/><BR/>The culture is similarly dark and melancholic. At the end of Kalevipoeg - the national epic, the hero cuts his feet off with his own sword. At the end of "Names in the Marble" - a recent flick about the War of Independence, the main character - an independence soldier finds out his idealized brother has been fighting for the communists. And all his friends get blown away by a machine gun. <BR/><BR/>The greatest similarities I have found with Estonian culture are with so-called Nordic works. I am a big fan of Ingmar Bergman - and what does he make films about? about a lonely knight playing chess with death [The Seventh Seal], about a young woman who is raped and killed and her father's revenge [Wild Strawberries]. Just look at the titles of Bergman's 60s films and you'll see the Estonian mindset:<BR/><BR/>The Devil's Eye (1960)<BR/>Through a Glass Darkly (1961)<BR/>Winter Light (1962)<BR/>The Silence (1963)<BR/>Hour of the Wolf (1968)<BR/>Shame (1968)<BR/><BR/><I>Estonian gender equality doesn't exist.</I><BR/><BR/>That's not true. The reason "women's movements" don't make much headway in Estonia is that for centuries the Estonian woman has always worked. <BR/><BR/>The Estonian women of today are doctors, lawyers, a presidential candidate [Ergma], journalists, editors, athletes - they do everything that men do in their country.<BR/><BR/>Whether they are truly equal is another question, but women do have reproductive rights [and there is no debate over this] and when they have children the state pays them their annual salary for one whole year while they stay home with their child.<BR/><BR/>What was that you were saying about gender inequality?<BR/><BR/><I>No welfare state.</I><BR/><BR/>Again, not wholly true. The big confusion here is the flat tax. Regressive Scandinavian types don't think you can guarantee people access to healthcare or a quality education without a 'progressive' taxation scheme that irritates citizens and businesses. In the Estonian model, the state takes a 26 percent [what is it this year? help me out here] flat tax and then uses those funds the way your state would.<BR/><BR/>Estonia is still a poor country and there is not as much wealth to redistribute via pensions, salaries for educators, health benefits to the population. But the Estonian system is far more in line with the Scandinavian welfare state than the system we have here in the US, where, even if we are employed, we may still not have access to any kind of health care whatsoever [except for emergency room visits].<BR/><BR/><I>The only pieces of Nordic you see are to be found in the wannabe-nordic Tallinn.</I><BR/><BR/>Tallinn actually strikes me as pretty slavic compared to the islands of Hiiumaa and Saaremaa [Dagö and Ösel in your language]. The Estonians have their own culture, but if I had to describe life there I would inevitably have to compare it to the Aaland Islands or parts of the Swedish archipelago. And that's why I use the 'N' word - because it comes in handy when trying to describe Estonian life to outsiders.Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1160990603245411042006-10-16T11:23:00.000+02:002006-10-16T11:23:00.000+02:00ALWAYS? Sorry, that means since the creation of th...ALWAYS? Sorry, that means since the creation of the world? Or since the 10th century? Or 17th? Or maybe still 1920-s? Or 40-s? 70-s maybe?plasma-jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06485039580759398780noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1160988901210428102006-10-16T10:55:00.000+02:002006-10-16T10:55:00.000+02:00In your last comment you're talking about trade/po...In your last comment you're talking about trade/politics again and forgetting culture. <BR/><BR/>Have you ever seen Estonian in the same table with Finn, Swede, Norwegian, Dane and Icelandic?<BR/><BR/>I have. Everybody laughs when Estonian is quiet and vice versa. <BR/><BR/>It doesn't matter whether there's NATO or not. It doesn't matter if there's EU or not. There's Nordic Council that makes the politics of Norden. It has ALWAYS been that way. The idea of "NORDIC" bases on that! It's a cultural concept. It's about welfare state, it's about the same sense of humor, gender equality and simple Nordic design. It's about depression and straight talk.<BR/><BR/>Estonian sense of humor has nothing to do with that. Estonian gender equality doesn't exist. No welfare state. The only pieces of Nordic you see are to be found in the wannabe-nordic Tallinn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1160952148775169762006-10-16T00:42:00.000+02:002006-10-16T00:42:00.000+02:00I wanted to address the strong defenders of old Sc...<I>I wanted to address the strong defenders of old Scandinavia.</I> <BR/><BR/>The EU and NATO have split the northerners. Norway and Iceland are in NATO but not in the EU, while Sweden and Finland are in the EU, but not in NATO. If Estonia ever gets the Euro, that will mean that Estonia and Finland will have the European currency, but Sweden and Denmark will not.<BR/>So where does pan-Nordic identity fit into that mess?Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1160911964085031522006-10-15T13:32:00.000+02:002006-10-15T13:32:00.000+02:00I wanted to address the strong defenders of old Sc...I wanted to address the strong defenders of old Scandinavia. Which exists only after 1945. 1905 was even a period of seperation: <BR/>'Many documents related to the specific events of 1905 were destroyed during and following those years. Some historians speculate[1] that foreign interests played a stronger role than what had previously been assumed; in particular, that Great Britain influenced the dissolution in order to reduce German influence over Atlantic ports. Although Sweden's close relationship with Germany did not last long, Norway's independence immediately put it inside the British sphere of influence.'<BR/>From Wikipedia: The separation of Norway and SwedenJens-Olafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18304784095687896639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1160847248200631032006-10-14T19:34:00.000+02:002006-10-14T19:34:00.000+02:00It's way easier for Estonians to identify themselv...<I>It's way easier for Estonians to identify themselves as Balts, the lingvuistic difference is no excuse. They share the same history (not only the Soviet era, Riga and Tallinn have more in common than Tallinn and Stockholm).</I><BR/><BR/>The "Baltic" culture you reference is the culture of Baltic Germans.<BR/>But they don't live there anymore, and therefore their influence is in architecture and old street names. They possess no base to propel them forward. There is no 21st Century Baltic German culture.<BR/><BR/>Each time Estonia has spoken for itself it has sought to identify itself with Scandinavia. When Estonia became independent there was some discussion over joining the Swedish empire. When Estonia was occupied, its president had drawn up plans for an Estonian-Finnish state should the issue become internationalized following the war.<BR/><BR/><I>Giustino, I vistied Norway when it was still poor, compared to its neighbors!<BR/>The Swedish looked down at them, the Danish too. Then came the oil. During the 80ies. Everything changed. It's about change. Some people would like to say: Yah, this is nordic! I do not forget discussion defending the norwegian point of view.</I><BR/><BR/>It all comes down to who has the money. Whomever has the money gets to tell others who they are and who they aren't.<BR/><BR/>Ask yourself: "Who gets to decide what is X and what is Y?"<BR/><BR/>I have a brain, I have used it, and this is my blog. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for reading!Giustinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04756707910693785516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13406351.post-1160837416200701072006-10-14T16:50:00.000+02:002006-10-14T16:50:00.000+02:00Giustino, I vistied Norway when it was still poor,...Giustino, I vistied Norway when it was still poor, compared to its neighbors!<BR/>The Swedish looked down at them, the Danish too. Then came the oil. During the 80ies. Everything changed. It's about change. Some people would like to say: Yah, this is nordic! I do not forget discussion defending the norwegian point of view.Jens-Olafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18304784095687896639noreply@blogger.com